Becoming a professional without a music degree

Don Lee · Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:22 pm Post subject:

I have enjoyed reading the many well considered posts in this thread. It would make good reading for any high school grad considering going to college. I really don't directly that much about getting a music degree, but I think that much of the discussion might also apply to a profession in graphic, fashion and industrial design or maybe even architectural design.

I guess my question would be, how valuable is the college experience itself to a young person? Most people will not work in the profession they got a degree in and in fact will wind up doing something very different.

Assuming you don't go broke, is it worth getting a university degree just for the chance to meet lots of people and the overall college experience?
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danambro8 · Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:41 pm Post subject:

percivalthehappyboy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Posts: 731

Most people may not work in the profession they got their degree in, but there are a lot of jobs that require a degree. Line manager at FedEx requires a degree, doesn't matter which subject. A lot of retail stores require their managers to have a degree, doesn't matter which subject. A lot of entry-level jobs at the corporate level, too.

Does it help? I don't know. Walgreens said their degreed managers run higher-profit stores. But at least you need to have basic math and literacy skills to graduate-- high school graduation is no guarantee of that.

roynj · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065

The reason that many employers require a degree (of any kind) for some of their supervisory/management positions has to do with the fact that pretty much any 4yr degree (or above) indicates that the candidate is an "educated person". It also indicates that the candidate had the resolve to stick to something and complete it. Most college experiences do require the person to (a) figure out what they have to do to graduate (not necessarily easy), (b) come up with a plan of study that will get them there, and (c) handle numerous twists and turns along the way (such as cancelled classes and pre-requisites that are degree requirements) and then re-plan their coursework to accomplish the goal. The whole process is a series of hurdles that an individual has to navigate successfully to reach the objective (in this case obtain the degree). It is a rarity for someone to go to college and have smooth sailing the whole way through. Hence, the attainment of the degree is a sign that the person is able to stick to it and be nimble enough to handle unknown issues that may arise. These are qualities that are generally desired in the workplace. Not to say that a non-degreed person would not have these qualities as well (maybe moreso), but they lack the paper proof of their accomplishment. If you have seen the movie "the paper chase", you know that it was not about learning the law; it was about "learning how to think". Remember the line? In todays world, if you have a degree, and to get this comment back on point, a music degree, it proves that the person had enough "juice" to obtain the piece of paper and this means something to people. You may not get the opportunity to go in and "blow away" an audition panel unless your resume includes a degree. Not so much in the past, but now usually this is the case - especially for newcomers with scant performance credits to their name.

musicalmason1 · Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:27 am Post subject:

I've been following this thread, and I do think it is one of the most interesting, longest lasting (without severely devolving) threads to be on the th in quite a while. Well done all, lots of interesting and well presented opinions and ideas. I've enjoyed reading them. That said, I have one more thing to contribute. Regarding education being a more stable option than performance....at least where I live I'd have to disagree. I live in PA, which I am aware of is not the best state to be a teacher in (at least until we get rid of our current governor), there are many states better for teaching than pa for teaching, and many in the same boat or worse. So take this opinion with a grain of salt depending on your location. For me, and many other self employed musicians, only performing is not an option. There just aren't enough gigs near me to make that work. I have to gig, teach lessons, do repairs, write and arrange and whatever else I can do to pay my bills. That means a lot of work, but more irons in the fire also means I am less dependent on any one of them to pay my bills. If all the gigs drop off for a while, I have my other jobs to pick up the slack....from the viewpoint of somebody working a 9-5 job, I'm sure my lifestyle looks pretty unsteady. It is actually much more reliable than you might think, just because I have so many things going at any given time. Another thing to look at is job security. Here in pa I know many teachers, especially music teachers that have been furlowed and rehired just about every year for the past 5 years. Many of them end a school year not knowing if they will have a job the next year, or if they should start looking elsewhere. That is not a stable lifestyle. These teachers are being laid off for budget reasons, it has nothing to do with how good at their jobs they are. On the other hand, nobody can fire me, I work for myself. Music stores and clients and bandleaders could choose to stop doing business with me if they wanted to, but those decisions would directly be related to my performance. I control my fate. If I do a good job, I will get called again. There are no "higher ups" who are looking at my name on a budget and deciding my fate without knowing me. Do I make as much money as a teacher? Somtimes, I don't know exactly what teachers average salaries around the country are, but I'm not broke. Benefits? I'm on my own, but I've got it figured out. Retirement? I may never retire, but I love what I do, and nothing I do should be limited by age. But as far as security and stability, I'm secure. I decide my fate, and that's worth something.
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gstump · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 934

I did not go through every post but I only see my post referencing trade/tech school. The OP is thinking about going to trade/tech school. Both my father and father-in-law were journeymen pipe fitters. Many of my friends work in the trades. They all make more money than music teachers even in Metro-Detroit which has relatively high salaries. Entry level teaching jobs have very little job security anymore especially in music. There is a need for technically trained trade persons in this country.

I "retired" after four (4) years of public school music teaching to play trumpet full time and pursue my trade as a woodworker/designer. I have always been my own boss except for SWAMBO. I did do some hard time as a union boss but I was totally in charge of my destiny there.

So, have a backup plan like trade school and play trumpet until the money runs out!!
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DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

kehaulani · Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject:

THANK YOU for using paragraphs.

To others, please use paragraphs instead of one very long block of text. Not everyone on this forum is blessed with eyesight as well as yours. And we ~do~ want to read your posts.

Thank you.
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percivalthehappyboy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Posts: 731

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

dershem · Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:30 pm Post subject:

Had I known then what I know now, I'd have gone for my history degree, with a minor in music, and gotten enough music credits/education to be able to teach history and band in a high school. That might be enough to protect against being shelved in case of budget cuts.

One of the big advantages of being a music major (or at least minor, and playing in a lot of college bands) is the networking. A lot of the people I gig with nowadays are people I met in college. Some of them are now teachers or professors themselves. All of those are the ones who had both natural talent and the drive to practice a lot.

percivalthehappyboy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Posts: 731

PhxHorn · Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:41 pm Post subject:

murph66 · Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:08 am Post subject:

I had a step father, Ray Pownell, who was a professional trumpet player, and, as far as I know, he never even went to college. During his college age years, he was in the infantry in Europe. Of course, this was over 60 years ago when there were many good small combos traveling the country and playing at clubs. My mother met him while he was playing at my grandmother's night club in Jackson, MS.

One of the many musicians who came through that club was Pete Barbutta (sp) who was with a group from Scranton, PA. called the Millionaires. He later made quite a name for himself as a comic in Las Vegas. He also played a pretty good trumpet, although piano was his primary instrument.

My father also played trumpet, although not professionally. Apparently, my mother had a thing about trumpet players.

roynj · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065

One of my good friends in college (back in the early '70s) was a fabulous trumpet player. He went on to study with Ghitalla at NEC and got his masters in performance. Just a great player and a great person too. He ended up eventually teaching band in a local HS (not playing in the NYPhil), and he eventually took a job programming computers, which he does to this day. He plays trumpet (exceedingly well) in pro gigs on the side as they arise. Another great player I knew in college went on to be an active professional player, and later became the head of music at a respected music school. Life is totally unpredictable even WITH a degree. So while I do not profess that the OP should or should not get a degree (or trade school certificate), I do believe that one's options in terms of future employment success in music (or any other field) is GREATLY facilitated by having some paper credential to your name. Sure you can find the rare (and almost extinct) cases where a non-credentialed person has become a success, but this is NOT the norm by any means. There's the hard way, and then there's the damn hard way. Take you're pick.

Steve A · Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:08 am Post subject:

kehaulani · Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:08 am Post subject:

For anyone looking for a career in "classical" performance, I'd like to recommending taking a look at an interesting little film, "Freeway Philharmonic". It won't be a life-changer, but it is a good look into the life many superb, but not first-tier, players have.

http://www.freewayphil.com/
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