• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Best mutes for vintage sounds?!?!


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Other Toys
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
trumanjazzguy
Veteran Member


Joined: 18 Apr 2011
Posts: 402
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:18 am    Post subject: Best mutes for vintage sounds?!?! Reply with quote

Hey all you beautiful people. I recently got into vintage mutes due to being in a traditional jazz and early rock and roll band.

I've acquired the following mutes recently:

1. CG Conn "maker" pixie (20's to 30's)
2. Humes and Berg Wah Wah Du All (copper)
3. 40's? V.J. LA Page aluminum cup mute
4. Humes and Berg Clear Tone (their version of a Shastock solo tone)
5. Really well sized plunger for standard bells

What other mutes would you recommend? Especially for growling and vocalizations? I'm looking to broaden my range of sonic expression here!
_________________
Trumpet: LA Benge 5X,
Flugelhorn: Jupiter 1100R
Mou‘Pieces: Reeves 42SV 692SL, Custom unmarked 30-throat double cup, Bach Commercial 7MV, Holton 66, Bach Corp. 3, Gustat No. 2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
patdublc
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 903
Location: Salisbury, MD

PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I collect vintage mutes as well. I often play passages over and over to find just the right muted sound. To me, cups are the most interesting. One of my favorites is a tight Ray Robinson cup. I have several and each is a little different due to the wear on the corks.

Other interesting vintage mutes that I like for different purposes include Mel-O-Wah by Ray Robinson or H&B, Selmer Styratones, and the various Shastock's.

It will be interesting to what others post about. Maybe we can all learn about some vintage mutes.
_________________
Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Sailors
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1725
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You GOTTA get an Ullven Cup Mute. Besides the Roy Robinson, it's gotta be the best vintage cup you can buy.
_________________
www.mikesailorsmusic.com
Now teaching via skype. For common sense embouchure help, visit my site and contact me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4510

PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of these for sure:

http://mutemeister.com/021-SSTT.html

I've had probably one of every Solo Tone made - H&B, Emo, Walt Johnson, etc., and by far, to my ears, that mute gives the more authentic sound.
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=123188&s=The-Best-Damn-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-Period-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ConnCoprion
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 1620

PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Harmon mute made I believe in 1925. I've seen them come up on ebay once in a blue moon. It has a metal stamping that says "something like: 1925
HARMON MUTE CO
CHICAGO, ILL

Most of it is not readable...but the rest of the words match up.

I actually just found it the other day...
_________________
Philippians 1:6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
etc-etc
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 5695

PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For narrow opening bells, Mel-O-Wah is a good choice - it does not fall out, unlike the Cleartone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jazz_trpt
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 5725
Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Facet Mutes now makes a wooden pixie/plunger combination that I just acquired:

http://facetmutes.com/shop/article_PP01/Pixie_Plunger-Mute-Combo.html

Very free blowing. I'm told by someone in the know that the LCJO trumpet section uses a Eb/D straight mute and standard plunger for their work, for what that's worth.

I like the Walt Johnson solotone for my purposes.

I was also gifted a vintage derby-on-wire-stand combo earlier this year, which can come in real handy...
_________________
Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4510

PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be me who suggested the Eb straight for plunger work. Told Kenny Rampton about it. It's a Denis Wick.
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=123188&s=The-Best-Damn-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-Period-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jazz_trpt
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 5725
Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpthrld wrote:
That would be me who suggested the Eb straight for plunger work. Told Kenny Rampton about it. It's a Denis Wick.


I have that combo (Kenny rerouted your suggestion back to me). It works a lot better than a new pixie, but I'd recommend giving the facet pixie a test drive if you get a chance...!
_________________
Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4510

PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried new pixies, old pixies, the H&B "short" straight mute, I altered all sorts of short/pixie mutes that I bought cheaply on eBay, and every one of them did NOT work for me. Beside playing painfully sharp, any notes below a 1st line E were completely unusable.

I had bought the Wick Eb/D straight mute to use on my Eb. I got a call to play "A Chorus Line" and there's a short 1st Trumpet solo that calls for plunger w/mute, & I thot what the heck, give the Eb mute a try and right there - my mute safari for a plunger straight mute ended. Could play all the way to the bottom of the horn with a good sound, and only went slightly sharp (typical of straights).

If I ever get a chance to try a Facet mute I will, but I'm very happy with what I've got now with the Wick Eb.
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=123188&s=The-Best-Damn-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-Period-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jazz_trpt
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 5725
Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpthrld wrote:
I tried new pixies, old pixies, the H&B "short" straight mute, I altered all sorts of short/pixie mutes that I bought cheaply on eBay, and every one of them did NOT work for me. Beside playing painfully sharp, any notes below a 1st line E were completely unusable.


Yeah, the Eb/D was a great workaround for that.

I've meant to do some demo recordings of the H&B pixie, Eb/D straight, and Facet pixie for folks interested. The Facet pixie, like all of their mutes, is REALLY free blowing and the intonation is quite good, IMO.

The Eb/D straight is a much more affordable option ... I'm just hooked on the Facet mutes.
_________________
Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jazz_trpt
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 5725
Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, since I'm pimping Facet, the Brusio trumpet mute is also an interesting sounding mute for vintage work -- not really a substitute for harmon (though it passes in informal circumstances), it's kind of a cross between a harmon and a straight. Another fun toy in the quiver:

http://facetmutes.com/shop/article_BR-1/Trumpet-Brusio-Mute.html
_________________
Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did u guys notice facet is selling a wooden bucket mute with 3 different settings? I don't think anything could top my Peter Gane bucket. But I've gotta give this one a try. It just looks too cool:-) will keep u guys posted. Best. Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw - although I love my facet walnut cup, nothing can beat the sound of an old adjustable cup shastock from the 40s era. Trent Austin gave me a great deal on one a couple months back.
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY

PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, imagine if facet started making adjustable cups. That's an amazing idea if I do say so myself!
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
intrepidpooch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Posts: 750
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The true bebop cup mute sound--think Diz on Bloomdido or Nat Adderley on the Cannonball/Nancy Wilson record--is the Shastock Tonacolor Adjustable Cup Mute. They're a bit heavy and have some funky corking but they sure sound amazing! Also if you're looking for a Ray Robinson cup sound, you can try the H&B Mic-a Mute and remove the rubber ring around the edge. Sounds REALLY close to the Robinson! Oh, and Steve Dillon (the Horntrader) has a plastic adjustable cup mute called the Emo Hush that sounds pretty close to the Shastock cup, it's on his site for sale new for $40.
_________________
Ray Callender
http://musicians.allaboutjazz.com/raycallender
http://www.myspace.com/raycallender
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thnx Ray good to know about the emo. Trent Austin gave me a great deal on the old shastock a few months ago. It is truly an awesome sound. Yes just like the old cats used to use.
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jerryr
New Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:03 pm    Post subject: Ill fitting mutes Reply with quote

I recently got a new mute and had a heck of a time keeping it in the bell. Finally realized I had to take off the cork as it was too large of a circumference and was not fitting tightly enough. After pulling the cork off I simply used some of the gray tape sometimes called "hundred mile an hour tape". Wrapped once around and smoothed out! Fits perfectly and sticks really well into the bell. Problem solved!
_________________
Interested in selling a few horns and buying others. Am a player and will surely value other players views and opinions. One of those horn junkies!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
kubban
Regular Member


Joined: 30 Dec 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I have not posted too much, but I want to thank all you guys on tpherald for very interesting information through many years!
I play 1920's and 1930's jazz on trumpet and cornet.

Of all the mutes I own or have tried, these are the mutes I have found easiest to get the sound I have in my head, and that I daily use playing these styles:
Shastock straight (1920's)
This is a marvellous mute! I got several Shastock straights, and the best ones are the old ones with a very rich yet piercing sound. I have tried and own many of the straight mutes available now and vintage mutes, and nothing beats my favourite Shastock. Got it cheap off ebay. Just put new corks on it.
Humes & Berg cup (2000)
- corks not filed down too much for open cup sound. It has the right "honk" and "the" cup sound we all know. Many other mutes are better playwise, like the new metal H&B alu adjustable cup, but the sound is worth it.
Humes & Berg mic-a-mute (2000)
- corks filed for close cup sound. This is very nice for Buck Clayton'ish playing. It is a tad better for me than my alternative, a H&B cup close to the bell wich is also very nice. I have observed that the excellent New Orleans trumpeter Duke Heitger uses a Close H&B cup. I have a Ray Robinson cup (1950's), and both the H&B mic-a-mute and close H&B cup are far better for me. I have tried "everything" with it, but cant get the right sound with it. When close enough to the bell, the corks get too thin...
Humes & Berg Cleartone (2000)
Very nice for some Ellington stuff and background on vocals etc. I also own a beautiful Shastock Solotone from the 1920's, but my cleartone is a little better in tune, projects a little better, and has a little richer sound.
Conn "doorknob mute"
for plunger work. Works from everything from King Oliver style to Muggsy Spanier. I have two, and one is much better in tune than the other.
Rubber plunger.
Standard hardware store plunger. I have drilled a 1/2 inch hole in it where the stick used to be.

I have found that it is extremely important to experiment with cork thickness to get the sound I want and to get the mutes in tune.

Torstein Kubban
Norway
_________________
1924 Conn 22b New York symphony trumpet
1998 Getzen 850 model cornet
1950 C. Mahillon flugelhorn

+numerous current and vintage trumpets, cornets, mouthpieces, mutes - yes you know I guess...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
giakara
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 3339
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kubban wrote:
Hi
I have not posted too much, but I want to thank all you guys on tpherald for very interesting information through many years!
I play 1920's and 1930's jazz on trumpet and cornet.

Of all the mutes I own or have tried, these are the mutes I have found easiest to get the sound I have in my head, and that I daily use playing these styles:
Shastock straight (1920's)
This is a marvellous mute! I got several Shastock straights, and the best ones are the old ones with a very rich yet piercing sound. I have tried and own many of the straight mutes available now and vintage mutes, and nothing beats my favourite Shastock. Got it cheap off ebay. Just put new corks on it.
Humes & Berg cup (2000)
- corks not filed down too much for open cup sound. It has the right "honk" and "the" cup sound we all know. Many other mutes are better playwise, like the new metal H&B alu adjustable cup, but the sound is worth it.
Humes & Berg mic-a-mute (2000)
- corks filed for close cup sound. This is very nice for Buck Clayton'ish playing. It is a tad better for me than my alternative, a H&B cup close to the bell wich is also very nice. I have observed that the excellent New Orleans trumpeter Duke Heitger uses a Close H&B cup. I have a Ray Robinson cup (1950's), and both the H&B mic-a-mute and close H&B cup are far better for me. I have tried "everything" with it, but cant get the right sound with it. When close enough to the bell, the corks get too thin...
Humes & Berg Cleartone (2000)
Very nice for some Ellington stuff and background on vocals etc. I also own a beautiful Shastock Solotone from the 1920's, but my cleartone is a little better in tune, projects a little better, and has a little richer sound.
Conn "doorknob mute"
for plunger work. Works from everything from King Oliver style to Muggsy Spanier. I have two, and one is much better in tune than the other.
Rubber plunger.
Standard hardware store plunger. I have drilled a 1/2 inch hole in it where the stick used to be.

I have found that it is extremely important to experiment with cork thickness to get the sound I want and to get the mutes in tune.

Torstein Kubban
Norway


Hello friend , i total agree with you plus i use a 20's "Tommy Dorsey" plunger that works best than any other , i collect mutes and i have all of the above plus some others , H&B classic whw-wha is the loudest one for "stem in" play.
Did you try the Purviance pieces ? i just recive one new from Reeves shop , a vintage blank 9 to matching my 9A , i have notice that if you like LB cornets this pieces works great and have the best rim and the jazziest sound , if you find any grab it and you will never look back.

Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A,TL6-1A Bb's
Getzen CB10 Bb
Getzen Eterna C
Selmer 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Getzen Eterna 850 cornet
Conn 81A Victor cornet
Carol mini pocket
Reeves /Purviance mpc's
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Other Toys All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group