To octave or not to octave?

[trptmindfk]

OK, so we've all been there, gleefully playing the 2nd trumpet part on a Hadyn, Mozart or Beethoven piece where we are playing in octaves to the 1st part and then get to do the sudden 12th leap to the unison cuz the lower octave note was not available on the natural trumpet.

Question, is it totally uncool to play the lower octave note which surely would have been written had it been available on the horn? Call me crazy but I usually play what is written but so very tempted to play the lower note.

I can hear Beethoven up there somewhere saying, "Yes dammit! Play the lower note. Can't you see I would have written the friggin' thing that way if I could have!"

What are your thoughts?

[jcstites]

Do whatever the principal player prefers.

[Adam West]

Consider this. The octaves change because of limitations of the instrument at the time. Nowadays we can play much higher than those instrument could well. Perhaps you should be asking why the principal isn't playing up another octave. Just food for thought.

[trptmindfk]

[bike&ed]

How did you master Batm...err, I mean Mr. West's style and inflection so well?

[swingintrpt]

Thomas Stevens has a great post here:

http://www.thomasstevensmusic.com/quotablesPage.php?Trumpet-Traditions-I-About-Those-Octaves-19

It seems like a pretty solid explanation to me, but as always, defer to your Principal and/or conductor.
_________________
RJM
Examining the difference between
music and Music.

[markhyams]

FWIW, when I'm playing principal I let the second player decide. It feels a little bit more like teamwork this way, versus the principal "dictatorship" tradition.

I've done it both ways for many years, and it seems like most conductors either don't care or don't notice.

Mark

[cheiden]

This is awesome information. The proposition that for "battery" parts, unison trumpets are likely to be more obtrusive than octaves coincides with my personal experience. For the time when I'm compelled to play unisons I'm always super careful to be utterly subordinate and inside the principle's sound which is not always easy to do. Octaves, where possible almost always seem more seamless and supportive of the musical line without drawing undue attention to the trumpets.
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[Andy Del]

[trptmindfk]

[Craig Swartz]

I play the ink. So long as the unison is in tune and doesn't leap out, what's the dif? Besides, it makes the part more interesting, and usually that's a welcome thing here.

[Jerry]

I once asked a second trumpet player in a (major) orchestra about this. He said to play the octave (in most instances) and never ask the conductor.

[LakeTahoeTrpt]

I would have thought the discussion would have ended after Thos Stevens' post was read. I was always taught by my two main teachers, both of whom played in the Cleveland Orchestra (at different times) and taught at major music schools (at different times) that whenever possible, you play the octaves. Period. In fifty years of playing I had one guest conductor (not very good) ask why we were not playing the unisons. No measure of explanation could dissuade him, so we played the unisons -- until the concert. He never said a word.

[Tal Katz]

I play 2nd trumpet in a chamber orchestra so I get to play a lot of these kind of parts. I usually play as written. If you listen to the horns, they usually also play some parts in unison. Why shouldn't the 2nd horn also play an octave lower where the 2nd trumpet could take it down an octave? Sometimes I'll take a few notes down an octave if there's a risky jump. I don't think it sounds bad in unison. Sometimes to me it actually sounds better texture wise. Also, take in consideration the sound difference between a symphonic orchestra and an about 35 players chamber orchestra. I guess if the conductor asks for something specific then you should do it. I never got asked by a conductor about this.
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You are what you practice.

[Craig Swartz]

By playing the ink we're probably playing what was originally intended, since that was about what one could do at the time. I also agree with never asking the conductor anything in most orchestra situations.

[clane326]

def see what the principal tpt wants, but I am a fan because it seems like composers would have... if they thought trumpeters back then could have. GO for it!

[loudog]

There are great arguments to both sides of this...do whatever your principal player says, generally...

BUT...

Really, the issue boils down to SOMETIMES....there are certain musical contextual situations where it's better to take it down an octave, and sometimes where it is not better to do so, with regards to which chord is being played, and how that moment fits into the overall scheme of the form of the piece. Instrument usage (natural trumpets vs piston trumpets vs rotary trumpets) and orchestra size could also play a role in the decision.

Stay tuned everyone, I've got an article for publication on this exact topic, specifically with Beethoven symphonies.

Louie
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Dr. Louie Eckhardt, trumpeter
http://www.LouieEckhardt.com
Associate Professor of Music
Hastings College

[Doug Fair]

I usually prefer playing the lower octave as, 1. I can due to our current instruments, 2. playing unisons, that frequently are not perfecly in tune, and always too loud, the lower octave provides a sonority that makes the 1st trumpet seem stronger and adds color to the sound.
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Doug Fair

[Jerry]

[Troy Sargent]