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Hugh Anderson
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Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Posts: 398
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 Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| I took mine to a good local tech, who looked at it and said the valves were within specs. You're talking about something much more involved than eyeballing it, aren't you? |
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jvand678
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 809
Location: TX
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Hugh Anderson wrote: | | I took mine to a good local tech, who looked at it and said the valves were within specs. You're talking about something much more involved than eyeballing it, aren't you? |
Hugh, it's definitely something more involved than most local techs can handle or diagnose. It is time consuming and time is money. Most local techs, out of necessity, aren't working in the world of .001" increments but rather in the world of get it really close and get it (keep it) running.
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mm55
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1412
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Can a horn be "blueprinted" to better than its original design? For instance, can a Yamaha 2330 be blueprinted to 6330 specs, improving on the original?
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'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
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Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| mm55 wrote: | | Can a horn be "blueprinted" to better than its original design? For instance, can a Yamaha 2330 be blueprinted to 6330 specs, improving on the original? |
Nope, just makes it as good as it can be. Other models can have different tapers in the leadpipe and bell, different materials and weights of materials, etc. |
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AndyLott
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Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 281
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by AndyLott on Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Daniel Barenboim
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Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| AndyLott wrote: | I thought I'd chime in with some good experience I've had with Jim/Osmun. I went by the shop over the summer and Jim worked on my C a little bit. Usually, when you send a horn in for a lot of work at once, you get it back and it's better but you don't know specifically what made it better. Was it the alignment, solder removal, bell bow rounding, etc? Jim helped me feel the bell bow on my Bach C and really feel how it wasn't perfectly round, it was surprisingly easy to feel. He took the horn back and rounded the bell bow, brought it back to me and showed me the difference and then I played and there was a definite positive difference noticed by everyone in the room. It was a little more free-blowing and my 3rd space C locked in a little more, Jim later said that's pretty common, something to do with where the nodal points line up in the bell.
He took the horn back and did a valve alignment next. Another huge positive difference. So much more even across the horn and much more ring to the sound. Jim's alignments were recommended to me by Wayne Tanabe because of the pads he uses, really allow the horn to ring. I was surprised but that even a few small pads like that would make a difference but they did. We didn't do any other work to my C because it had previously been worked on by some other techs and was definitely solder free. I was very happy that I got to experience the effects of each process and that Jim was there to explain everything he did.
I'm really happy with the work Jim did on my C. I later sent him my Bb for a full blueprinting but after he received the horn and looked it over, he said it didn't really need the bell bow rounding and everything else looked clean so he just did the valve alignment and did a minor repair, another big difference when I got it back.
Later I sent a new Yamaha Eb that played great, just a little stiff. He did the cryo-freeze and a valve alignment. I was skeptical of the cryogenic freezing process but figured it wouldn't do any harm and that now would be the perfect time to try it on a new horn that hasn't been broken in. It's tough to describe but the horn feels much more settled and resonates better. Almost like the difference between when you first buy new shoes and when they've finally broken in and don't hurt anymore! I dig it.
So count me among the many happy Osmun customers! Thanks Jim! |
Great! Are you actually going to play any of these horns now or just flip them?
DB |
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James Becker
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:04 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Andy for your kind words and sharing your positive experience with the TH community. It was a real pleasure to meet you and Chase, to have the opportunity to hear you two play and get your feed back. No doubt it's advantageous to perform our services in steps for you while on site, it more clearly demonstrates the benefits each adjustment.
As for flipping instruments, perhaps there's less need to if you're happy with them. It's not uncommon to hear customers tell us that our services actually prevented them from giving up and shop for another.
The email message I shared from Mike Myers at the beginning or this thread demonstrates an end to his long running search for a better playing Bach C trumpet.
If you're still fighting your instrument, why not let us give it look and see if there's room for improvement? It's our aim to get to the the heart of the problem and give you back a better instrument than you brought us. With over 100 years combined experience between our three player/technicians, we have skills not easily found elsewhere.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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AndyLott
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 281
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Daniel Barenboim wrote: | | AndyLott wrote: | I thought I'd chime in with some good experience I've had with Jim/Osmun. I went by the shop over the summer and Jim worked on my C a little bit. Usually, when you send a horn in for a lot of work at once, you get it back and it's better but you don't know specifically what made it better. Was it the alignment, solder removal, bell bow rounding, etc? Jim helped me feel the bell bow on my Bach C and really feel how it wasn't perfectly round, it was surprisingly easy to feel. He took the horn back and rounded the bell bow, brought it back to me and showed me the difference and then I played and there was a definite positive difference noticed by everyone in the room. It was a little more free-blowing and my 3rd space C locked in a little more, Jim later said that's pretty common, something to do with where the nodal points line up in the bell.
He took the horn back and did a valve alignment next. Another huge positive difference. So much more even across the horn and much more ring to the sound. Jim's alignments were recommended to me by Wayne Tanabe because of the pads he uses, really allow the horn to ring. I was surprised but that even a few small pads like that would make a difference but they did. We didn't do any other work to my C because it had previously been worked on by some other techs and was definitely solder free. I was very happy that I got to experience the effects of each process and that Jim was there to explain everything he did.
I'm really happy with the work Jim did on my C. I later sent him my Bb for a full blueprinting but after he received the horn and looked it over, he said it didn't really need the bell bow rounding and everything else looked clean so he just did the valve alignment and did a minor repair, another big difference when I got it back.
Later I sent a new Yamaha Eb that played great, just a little stiff. He did the cryo-freeze and a valve alignment. I was skeptical of the cryogenic freezing process but figured it wouldn't do any harm and that now would be the perfect time to try it on a new horn that hasn't been broken in. It's tough to describe but the horn feels much more settled and resonates better. Almost like the difference between when you first buy new shoes and when they've finally broken in and don't hurt anymore! I dig it.
So count me among the many happy Osmun customers! Thanks Jim! |
Great! Are you actually going to play any of these horns now or just flip them?
DB |
Maestro, when you decide to put down the baton and pick up the trumpet, give me a call and I'll hook you up! |
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AndyLott
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Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 281
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by AndyLott on Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | Daniel Barenboim wrote: | None of the players that audition for me play Wild Things.
In truth,
DB |
This comment is irrelevant to the discussion. |
Absolutely!!
Good grief, Nate simply commented on the service that Flip offers on non-WT horns that apparently is similar to what Osmun Music does. And IMO, that type of service definitely absolutely makes a difference; my Benge plays considerably more evenly and slightly more open afer Flip's enhancement.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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James Becker
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:00 am Post subject: |
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From the time I became member of TH it's always bothered me how many members hide behind false identities in order to post their opinions and snarky comments without ownership, so long as it's allowed it will continue to happen. You either have to have let it go or have thicker skin so not to let it get you down. The stereotype of egocentric trumpet players is routinely demonstrated on this forum.
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James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:38 am Post subject: |
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When this thread began I was a little skeptical but definitely intrigued. Frankly, I'd never heard of "blueprinting" but a little research confirmed that it's common practice among auto and gun owners, golfers, and probably others who seek to get the most of out their equipment.
So I decided to take the plunge and send Jim Becker a 1980s era Bach CML Strad I purchased a few years ago from a fellow THer. The horn played well but not great.
Well, I just received it and it now it plays beyond great! What comes forth now is absolutely glorious! A big, round, resonant sound with perfect intonation from top to bottom and response that almost makes it seem like someone else is playing the horn for me. The notes seem to leap forth on their own!
To achieve this remarkable transformation Jim rebuilt the valves and did a precision valve alignment, rounded out the bell bow, added a 3rd valve stop, installed a new receiver and adjusted the gap.
I never reveal costs because I feel it puts the vendor at a disadvantage when it comes to quoting other customers but I will say the bill was less than I've paid for a dental crown! In fact, the total of what I paid for the horn plus Jim's fee is less than I'd have to pay for a brand new Bach C which, who knows, might have to be blueprinted.
Needless to say, I give Osmun and Jim Becker my highest recommendation. Their service and work was first rate all around.
Now will my blueprinted Bach make me a better player? I sure hope so but I'm also reminded of the story of the priest and the rabbi who went to the Friday night fights. As the first bout got underway the rabbi leaned over to the priest and said "I notice the Irish boy crossed himself. Will that help him?" The priest smiled and said, "It will if he can fight."
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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tptjazzboy28
Regular Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 63
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| jhatpro wrote: | | So I decided to take the plunge and send Jim Becker a 1980s era Bach CML Strad I purchased a few years ago from a fellow THer. The horn played well but not great. |
Hey jhatpro! If I remember correctly that was my old Bach C. Funny that I live 20 minutes from Osmun and Jim Becker is my go-to guy for horn repair. Sounds like I should have held on to that horn and taken it in for Jim's blueprinting service! Funny that the horn ended up coming back to this area for work, what a small world! Glad you're enjoying it!
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Christopher Rymes
ACB- Nashville
PATRICK Mouthpieces
Belmont University
Nashville, TN |
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tulsaband
Regular Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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There are about 5 or 6 people in the country that I would allow to mess with my horns. Jim Becker is very high on a very short list. Hard to find guys with that skill level and knowledge.
When I was at Calicchio, he was one of the few guys that I spoke with who really knew what made a trumpet work.
Beyond that, $310 to make a Bach play as well as it could if they were handcrafted, high-end professional instrument? That's a bargain compared to some of the procedures that have been offered in the trumpet world!
Dave Johnson
Tulsa Band |
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trumpjosh
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Posts: 741
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| tulsaband wrote: | | There are about 5 or 6 people in the country that I would allow to mess with my horns. Jim Becker is very high on a very short list. Hard to find guys with that skill level and knowledge. |
I absolutely agree with this, except for me it's only about 2 or 3 people. Jim's the best! 
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www.milanomusic.com |
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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Chris! Enjoying it I surely am!
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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James Becker
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Post removed.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
Last edited by James Becker on Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yourbrass
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 3636
Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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".. He took the horn back and rounded the bell bow, brought it back to me and showed me the difference and then I played and there was a definite positive difference noticed by everyone in the room. It was a little more free-blowing and my 3rd space C locked in a little more, Jim later said that's pretty common, something to do with where the nodal points line up in the bell."
That's really interesting about the bell bow. I've done that a number of times, primarily because the customer smashed or dented the bow. I've also seen older Bachs with crimps at the bottom of the crook's turn. A couple of time I've annealed crooks and enlarged them to see what would happen. (Usually it improves performance) Hats off to Jim if he's got it down to a science!
-Lionel
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"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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a.kemp
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 678
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:09 am Post subject: |
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More praise for Jim Becker and Osmun Music for their Blueprinting services!
I've been searching for a Bach C for a while. I was open to virtually any model.
I tried:
Bach Chicago
Bach Philly
Bach Artisan
Bach 229/25H
I really liked the Chicago models! Artisans were very even!
But, I kept going back to the sound of the 229/25H. But, they were definitely more work to 'control'.
So, I thought about getting the Chicago because of the ease. But, wasn't comfortable with the trade off of loss of the sound I wanted and got from the 229/25H.
So, I contacted Jim Becker and told him of my search and results....and frustrations!
He sent me out a Bach 229/25H that had been blueprinted. And, was immediately obvious that I didn't have to sacrifice playability or sound when buying a new Bach.
This 229/25H plays with that big, broad Bach sound. But, is as smooth and effortless as a lighter weight Bach or Yamaha Artist model.
I've played lots of 229/25H models.....but, never played one that plays anything like this one!
Many thanks, Jim!!!! |
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wvtrumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 3131
Location: West Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:32 am Post subject: |
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This has nothing to do with blueprinting, but it has everything to do with Osmun Music. I am not even sure if Jim was working for Osmun when I bought a C trumpet from them in 1990. From dealing with them on the phone to getting the horn, it was still to this day one of the smoothest transactions I have been a part of in purchasing a horn. The horn arrive packed well, and ready to play right out of the box. Well lubed, slides aligned, and the valves oiled. Great reputation for a number of years for us older guys
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Freelance Performer/Teacher WV, PA, MD, and OH http://www.neil-king.com
Yamaha NY Bb, Adams F1 Flugelhorn, Schilke P5-4, Stomvi Eb/D Elite, Bach C 229 bell 25A, York Monarch cornet. |
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