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Any Late Starters who became great trumpeters?


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nvidal
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: Late beginner Reply with quote

ErikE wrote:
I've had one student who didn't start until he was 48, I think. After four years of lessons, he joined a community band, able to play on their easier numbers. A year after that and he's able to do some easy jamming with friends on jazz tunes.

I don't think he'll be noted as an exceptional trumpeter, but he has fun playing on a regular basis, which was his goal to begin with.

Hang in there!


But that is still a nice pace to improve at, even starting a later age. Nice job teach. My HS trumpet buddy is coming back, but he is very much like the student you mention given he never developed his playing as a kid.

Trumpet is def an adult instrument. They should hand every incoming freshman in college a trumpet, and make them be able to play it by the time they graduate:) 4 years!
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Trumpet2003
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:45 am    Post subject: Re: Late beginner Reply with quote

ErikE wrote:
I've had one student who didn't start until he was 48, I think. After four years of lessons, he joined a community band, able to play on their easier numbers. A year after that and he's able to do some easy jamming with friends on jazz tunes.

I don't think he'll be noted as an exceptional trumpeter, but he has fun playing on a regular basis, which was his goal to begin with.

Hang in there!


Very cool: it speaks highly of both your student and your teaching! I will definitely hang in, but still hope to find an example of someone who started late and became a good professional trumpet player. Perhaps your student is on his way and will become an example!
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jungledoc
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: Late beginner Reply with quote

Trumpet2003 wrote:
I will definitely hang in, but still hope to find an example of someone who started late and became a good professional trumpet player. Perhaps your student is on his way and will become an example!

We'll just follow your career for a few years; maybe you'll be another one!
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Brent
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:59 pm    Post subject: late starters Reply with quote

I believe Blue Mitchell didn't start playing trumpet until he was 17.
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Trumpet2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Late beginner Reply with quote

ErikE wrote:
I've had one student who didn't start until he was 48, I think. After four years of lessons, he joined a community band, able to play on their easier numbers. A year after that and he's able to do some easy jamming with friends on jazz tunes.

I don't think he'll be noted as an exceptional trumpeter, but he has fun playing on a regular basis, which was his goal to begin with.

Hang in there!


Belated thanks for the encouragement! I am hanging in there!
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Dennis78
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a comeback that only really started playing seriously in the past two years after barely touching the horn for 20 years! I'm hoping that when I'm 50 and the kids are teens and don't like their old man I can really dive in and become great, but two years into my comeback I'm not great but serviceable at least the community band I joind last year hasn't kicked me out, and we usually get a standing O at the end of our concerts so I feel that I'm part of something great
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Trumpet2003
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for all the interesting replies and all the very nice encouragement. I still hope to find (or better yet become!) an example of someone who started playing in their 40s or later, and became a very good professional trumpeter.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm impressed you've stopped back so many years later? Are you a professional yet? (joking)

Honestly, I am happy to be the voice of doom and pessimism. There are probably people who start after 50 and become "quite good." Maybe they can join a group and even make money and have a lot of fun and be a good player. But, the odds of making it into anything considered competitive (i.e .auditions with many competitors) is close to zero. I think asking this question is sort of like saying, "can you become a professional gymnast starting after age 50?" Um, maybe-sorta, but only if you define professional really broadly and recognize that you won't make many of the milestones that most true professionals made by age 16 or 18.

I hang out on the violin boards also and there it's even more grim. At one point people were comparing the odds of a middle school foot ball player making it to the NFL vs the odds of a middle school violinists making it to a major orchestra. It's unclear which is harder.

Honestly, many of the top trumpet players had something going for them very early (years of piano lessons, the child of professional musicians, trumpet lessons from the start, etc.). Even for a good player with some natural talent who starts in fifth or sixth grade, it's a relatively small number that can be truly competitive. ... So that's the pessimistic take.

On the other hand, there's a lot you can do with some talent and a few years of hard work. Don't ruin a very fun hobby. Most of us can make continuous progress our whole lives and be quite excellent in some areas. For me, that's enough
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Trumpet2003
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
I'm impressed you've stopped back so many years later? Are you a professional yet? (joking)

Honestly, I am happy to be the voice of doom and pessimism. There are probably people who start after 50 and become "quite good." Maybe they can join a group and even make money and have a lot of fun and be a good player. But, the odds of making it into anything considered competitive (i.e .auditions with many competitors) is close to zero. I think asking this question is sort of like saying, "can you become a professional gymnast starting after age 50?" Um, maybe-sorta, but only if you define professional really broadly and recognize that you won't make many of the milestones that most true professionals made by age 16 or 18.

I hang out on the violin boards also and there it's even more grim. At one point people were comparing the odds of a middle school foot ball player making it to the NFL vs the odds of a middle school violinists making it to a major orchestra. It's unclear which is harder.

Honestly, many of the top trumpet players had something going for them very early (years of piano lessons, the child of professional musicians, trumpet lessons from the start, etc.). Even for a good player with some natural talent who starts in fifth or sixth grade, it's a relatively small number that can be truly competitive. ... So that's the pessimistic take.

On the other hand, there's a lot you can do with some talent and a few years of hard work. Don't ruin a very fun hobby. Most of us can make continuous progress our whole lives and be quite excellent in some areas. For me, that's enough


You are probably right.
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Croquethed
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife and I recently went to hear one of our favorite soul/blues/rock acts. Front man plays guitar and the band consists of bass, keys, drums, two backup singers and a two-man horn section - trumpet and sax.

After the show, the trumpet player, who looks to be mid-40s to early 50s, and I were talking horns and stuff and he asked me if I was in a band. No, I said, I was just a I-IV-V Stax riff hack who plays for fun.

He said "10 years ago I coudn't have told you what a V-IV-I was. Now look at me."

I doubt he's getting wealthy but he is a member of a band that has a steady audience and tours on the regular. I'm sure he is the exception rather than the rule. A lot of making it as a pro, beyond chops, is timing, but that's true in anything.

Also, just for reference to the remark about middle schoolers making it to the NFL. A friend of mine made it all the way to major league baseball where he had a pretty solid 10-year career. I back-of-napkin'ed how many kids played in the town Little League over the years to produce 1 major leaguer...came up with about 10,000-to-1 odds.
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Trumpet2003
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: Late beginner Reply with quote

ErikE wrote:
I've had one student who didn't start until he was 48, I think. After four years of lessons, he joined a community band, able to play on their easier numbers. A year after that and he's able to do some easy jamming with friends on jazz tunes.

I don't think he'll be noted as an exceptional trumpeter, but he has fun playing on a regular basis, which was his goal to begin with.

Hang in there!


Thanks for sharing the example of your student. It is very applicable to me. Thanks for the encouragement!
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peanuts56
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the mid 70's I was attending a community college that had a really fine music dept.
We had a guy sit in with the jazz ensemble rehearsals a few times. He was about 27-28 and started playing when he was around 22. He basically locked himself in a room with Claude Gordon's Systematic Book for 4-5 hours a day. He had a pretty decent double c. He wasn't very musical however. Pretty much spent all his practice time on technical exercises. Still, it was pretty impressive that he was able develop really strong chops in such a short time. After a few rehearsals we never saw him again.
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Trumpet2003
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peanuts56 wrote:
Back in the mid 70's I was attending a community college that had a really fine music dept.
We had a guy sit in with the jazz ensemble rehearsals a few times. He was about 27-28 and started playing when he was around 22. He basically locked himself in a room with Claude Gordon's Systematic Book for 4-5 hours a day. He had a pretty decent double c. He wasn't very musical however. Pretty much spent all his practice time on technical exercises. Still, it was pretty impressive that he was able develop really strong chops in such a short time. After a few rehearsals we never saw him again.


Interesting story. It is not surprising that consistent 4-5 hours a day of practicing alone would lead to strong chops, but not help with musical skills. Musical skills are helped by playing with others and or playing along with recordings.
By late starters, I am curious people who didn't play trumpet or a related brass instrument until they at in their 40s. 27-28 is late compared to many, but is much younger than 40s, which I am trying to ask about.
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Mike Prestage
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be very surprised if anyone could answer your question any way other than 'no'. That doesn't in any way imply that it's unrealistic for someone in your situation to take their playing to a profoundly different level though - it just reflects how competitive professional music is.

Motivation works differently for all of us of course, but the goal you're talking about strikes me as so extreme that's it's liable to become counter-productive. If you want to discover where you can eventually get to with your playing, IMO you'd do better by focusing on what progress you'd like to make in the not too distant future - maybe just a year ahead. If you thrive on that and can keep going in that mode for enough years, it will take you a very long way

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Trumpet2003
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Prestage wrote:
I'd be very surprised if anyone could answer your question any way other than 'no'. That doesn't in any way imply that it's unrealistic for someone in your situation to take their playing to a profoundly different level though - it just reflects how competitive professional music is.

Motivation works differently for all of us of course, but the goal you're talking about strikes me as so extreme that's it's liable to become counter-productive. If you want to discover where you can eventually get to with your playing, IMO you'd do better by focusing on what progress you'd like to make in the not too distant future - maybe just a year ahead. If you thrive on that and can keep going in that mode for enough years, it will take you a very long way

Mike

You are right, as evidenced by this responses to this thread, the consensus is "no". Nevertheless, thank you to you and everyone else for the encouragement thoughts.
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rothman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Less of a player than what occurs with aptitude, 'gift' for playing music, yet he overcame major obstacles to demonstrate unimaginable chop strength. Not widely admired, but very solid ability.



https://jeromecallet.com/our-story
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Trumpet2003
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rothman wrote:
Less of a player than what occurs with aptitude, 'gift' for playing music, yet he overcame major obstacles to demonstrate unimaginable chop strength. Not widely admired, but very solid ability.



https://jeromecallet.com/our-story


Very interesting, thanks. I'll search for his method on the Internet. Have you used his method, and if so, what do you think?
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpet2003 wrote:
I'll search for his method on the Internet.

There's lots of information right here on Trumpet Herald: https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=16
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rothman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpet2003 wrote:

.. I'll search for his method on the Internet. Have you used his method, and if so, what do you think?


Giardinelli's was where I first heard him. His studio in Manhattan, at that time he didn't seem to stress the use of the tongue. Asking if I tongued notes, "thru the teeth".. somehow mattered to him, but not much explanation about it. So you'll do much better to hear the experience of others here.

Most of what I recall was how strong his sound was as he ascended from low, medium registers to very high ones. Just an opinion.. that because many were unconvinced of him, he made a point of doing a number of things repeatedly so no one could interpret 'one and done' let's rest. One time, a terrific lead player then w Lou Rawls, popped in.. gabbing but also wailing away for 20 min. I recall thinking at the time, "Wow, this guy is absolutely very good" with a thought to myself, that side by side hearing both...about 70% as strong as Jerome."
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Trumpet2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rothman wrote:
Trumpet2003 wrote:

.. I'll search for his method on the Internet. Have you used his method, and if so, what do you think?


Giardinelli's was where I first heard him. His studio in Manhattan, at that time he didn't seem to stress the use of the tongue. Asking if I tongued notes, "thru the teeth".. somehow mattered to him, but not much explanation about it. So you'll do much better to hear the experience of others here.

Most of what I recall was how strong his sound was as he ascended from low, medium registers to very high ones. Just an opinion.. that because many were unconvinced of him, he made a point of doing a number of things repeatedly so no one could interpret 'one and done' let's rest. One time, a terrific lead player then w Lou Rawls, popped in.. gabbing but also wailing away for 20 min. I recall thinking at the time, "Wow, this guy is absolutely very good" with a thought to myself, that side by side hearing both...about 70% as strong as Jerome."


Thanks again.
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