Help with King Super-20 Symphony dual bore evaluation

[Bigal50]

I am a comeback player, playing a Yamaha YT2335. A friend is selling a King Super-20 Symphony, dual bore that I think is 1964 vintage. (Not quite as vintage as me, my wife reminds me.) I like, it. It is in good shape. It seems to play on-key easier for me compared to my Yamaha based on my app on my phone. Also, I can hit higher notes better than with my Yamaha. BUT, I am wondering if it is the horn for me, as I have problems with hitting above the G above the staff without badly squeaking.

I've been working on my range with my teacher, and have hopes of getting more air above the staff. I'm in great physical shape so, i don't see any reason not to be able to produce more air, but I'm not there yet.

What I have read these double bore horns require lots of air, and I'm not there yet. But the King is already an improvement compared to my current horn, so I am inclined to buy it.

I also am trying out a mint Giardinelli 852TR. I like it too, but don't find it as easy to hit notes in tune. These are the only horns I've played in the past 5 years since I started playing again.

So, what I am looking for is advice. Would you recommend the King trumpet to someone who is currently struggling to get notes above the staff?

[Dayton]

Would it be possible to bring the King trumpet to your next lesson and let your teacher hear you play it? Your teacher ought to be able to help you figure if that horn is a good match for you.

Regarding dual/step bore in general, my experience has been that bore size has only a small impact on how the horn feels. When I switch from my .468 step bore Lawler C7 to my .459 single bore Bach Strad I barely feel the difference, and what difference I do feel in the blow of the horn may have more to do with the leadpipe venturi, mouthpiece gap, shape of the tuning slide...than the bore. Thus, I wouldn't shy away from a horn that otherwise feels/sounds good to you and your teacher simply because of the bore size.

Good luck!

[JonathanM]

I've played a ton of horns and liked most all of them, step-bore especially. The King dual bore, however, did NOT work for me and I've read of good playing pros that didn't like them either. They work for some but not all apparently; a rather unusual horn.
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Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super

[Bigal50]

Thanks, Dayton! As luck has it I had a lesson today, and played it for my teacher. He agreed with you not to sweat the dual bore. AND agreed with me that the trumpet had much better sound above and below the register. Sold. For $500! Oh, happy day.

After reading all the other threads here about owners of the King Super-20 Symphony trumpet, I so wanted to like it anyway!

[Bigal50]

"I've played a ton of horns and liked most all of them, step-bore especially. The King dual bore, however, did NOT work for me and I've read of good playing pros that didn't like them either. They work for some but not all apparently; a rather unusual horn."

Jonathon- Can you explain, 'did NOT work for me'? Just curious.

[JonathanM]

This was a couple of years ago. Beautiful horn - I've always admired the vintage King products. The very middle of my playing range was acceptable on that horn but I really struggled with both the lower and upper range.

I've got a ton of mouthpieces (which come in handy when trying vastly different model horns) and nothing I had enabled me to play confidently with that horn. I have Reeves sleeves and often use them with vintage horns; stretched receivers, etc. Nothing that I had worked. At the time I actually tried to pick up a King mouthpiece from the same era wondering if that would help, but I just decided to move on.

It could have been, as I wondered then, the mouthpiece fit. With all the mouthpieces I tried I just wasn't sure - but the horn and I simply did not get along. At the time I searched some material on the web about the 'dual bore' and also wondered if that model just wasn't a fit for me. I recall reading another players experience, a far more advanced player than I, who also wasn't too fond of the dual bore. That's part of the reason I let the horn go.

As is often the case though - the horn that didn't work for me seemed to work wonders with the fellow that bought it from me. We can make ourselves live with a horn that isn't the best match or find one that simply syncs better with us.

Good luck; the Super 20 I had was built extremely well. Valves and slides were exemplary. It's refreshing to have a horn that, if necessary, one can easily part with (well respected horns). A King Super 20 certainly falls into that category.

Keep us informed how you and the horn get along; it's always nice to see how the 'marriage' works.
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Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super

[Bigal50]

Thanks. The King trumpet is clearly a step up for me. I play in a community band. Last night I tired our lead's Schilke B3, and was amazed by that horn. But, I soon found that used ones cost 2 to 3 times what the guy wants for the King. I'm excited about the King horn, and maybe if I keep progressing I can justify something in the $1200 range.

Thanks for the encouraging words of those on this site!

[KingSilverSonic]

Sounds like you got a great deal with the King DB. I had been wanting one for years and ~ 5 years ago found one on ebay and was determined to get it. So, I threw out a pretty high bid and ended up winning the auction at around $1,300 - could have been higher, just don't remember. This horn is absolutely awesome. Did not notice anything about the DB in terms of how it played. I have been playing it ever since, then put this horn away and got out my Lawler C7 about 5-6 months ago as the C7 is too good of a horn to just sit in a case. It is a step-bore and took me a few days to adapt. BTW - I had the King completely redone a few years ago and I think it plays even better. The bell and leadpipe are in raw silver. Vintage horns are the way to go if you can find a good one.
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Richard

Lawler C7
Burbank Benge C
Calicchio 1s/2
King Symphony 20 DB and Silver Sonic Cornet
Lawler flugelhorn
Member: Bugles Across America