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lnsrain New Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 5
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:54 am Post subject: Any experience of Getzen Eterna 896 (4 Valve) Flugelhorn |
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Dear all, I fancy the Getzen Eterna 896 4 valve flugelhorn. Anyone who has this horn could share any experience about the horn? I am particularly interested about its intonation at the lower range. Any input would be appreciated!
Thanks! |
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dershem Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1889 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I had one of those for 10-15 years. It's a decent horn, if a bit 'trombone-y' due to the large bore. Intonation in the low register is what the 4th valve is best for - you can tune the 4th to be in tune for 1-3 combinations, and not worry much. The pedal register ... not gonna perfect on any horn, but this one is pretty easy to lip in tune. I wish I still had that horn, but it was stolen.
As always, the mouthpiece you use is crucial. |
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connicalman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 1668 Location: West Medford, MA
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Mouthpiece choice is important, agreed.
I haven't tried a particularly shallow cup. With the Getzen 3 it came with the horn has a champagne sparkly top to that trombone-like timbre as mentioned above. With a Wick 4... (hmm 4F or 4FL ??...the horn isn't with me today) the brighter edge simmers down and it plays closer to the breathy affect of a smaller bore flug. That's my experience. There are several deeper choices for mpc. Take care to get the correct taper.
Lip is necessary for the extended range below low F#. The 4th slide? Adjust and tune up to suit how your chops hit the note you're aiming at down deep. Think ahead, given the key you're in! Set up to get that note pitched right, lip the rest from there.
The 896, it is a useful, fun, yet heavy axe. _________________ kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A... |
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lnsrain New Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 5
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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dershem wrote: | I had one of those for 10-15 years. It's a decent horn, if a bit 'trombone-y' due to the large bore. Intonation in the low register is what the 4th valve is best for - you can tune the 4th to be in tune for 1-3 combinations, and not worry much. The pedal register ... not gonna perfect on any horn, but this one is pretty easy to lip in tune. I wish I still had that horn, but it was stolen.
As always, the mouthpiece you use is crucial. |
wow thanks! which mouthpiece would you recommend?
do you think the notes reached below F# using the 4th valve are in tune? i expected the need to lip down a bit since they are probably sharp anyway |
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lnsrain New Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 5
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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connicalman wrote: | Mouthpiece choice is important, agreed.
I haven't tried a particularly shallow cup. With the Getzen 3 it came with the horn has a champagne sparkly top to that trombone-like timbre as mentioned above. With a Wick 4... (hmm 4F or 4FL ??...the horn isn't with me today) the brighter edge simmers down and it plays closer to the breathy affect of a smaller bore flug. That's my experience. There are several deeper choices for mpc. Take care to get the correct taper.
Lip is necessary for the extended range below low F#. The 4th slide? Adjust and tune up to suit how your chops hit the note you're aiming at down deep. Think ahead, given the key you're in! Set up to get that note pitched right, lip the rest from there.
The 896, it is a useful, fun, yet heavy axe. |
standard taper right?
do you mean i have to pull out the 4th valve slide out a bit to make those notes in tune? |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2421 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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lnsrain wrote: | do you think the notes reached below F# using the 4th valve are in tune? i expected the need to lip down a bit since they are probably sharp anyway |
Here are the fingerings I use on my Getzen 896 Flugelhorn for notes below F# below the staff. For these fingerings, I keep the 3rd valve slide out 1/2 inch, and the 4th valve slide out 3/4 inch.
F - 1+4
E - 3+4 (1+2+4 is too sharp)
Eb - 2+3+4
D - 1+2+3+4 (1+3+4 is a half-step sharp)
Db - 1+2+3+4 (same fingering as D, but I lip the note down)
Alternately, if I'm doing a lot of playing below F# below the staff, I pull both my 4th valve slide and the 4th valve kicker slide out (about 2 inches combined). The 3rd valve slide is also out 1/2 inch. With this combination, I can't use the 4th valve to help with D and C# just below the staff (they'd be too flat). But this combination gives me better intonation for notes below F# below the staff, and lets me avoid the alternate valve combinations.
F - 1+4
E - 1+2+4
Eb - 2+3+4
D - 1+3+4 (still maybe a tad sharp, but easy to lip down)
Db - 1+2+3+4 (still maybe a tad sharp, but easy to lip down)
Finally, for notes from pedal C down, I use normal fingerings. These note are easily played in tune. That's not the problem. Instead, the problem is that the character of these notes is different, and resonate much more than the notes just above them. Because of this, I have to back off a bit when playing pedal C or lower.
C - open
B - 2
Bb - 1
A - 1+2
Ab - 2+3
G - 1+3
F# - 1+2+3
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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lnsrain New Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 5
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:18 am Post subject: |
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TrumpetMD wrote: | lnsrain wrote: | do you think the notes reached below F# using the 4th valve are in tune? i expected the need to lip down a bit since they are probably sharp anyway |
Here are the fingerings I use on my Getzen 896 Flugelhorn for notes below F# below the staff. For these fingerings, I keep the 3rd valve slide out 1/2 inch, and the 4th valve slide out 3/4 inch.
F - 1+4
E - 3+4 (1+2+4 is too sharp)
Eb - 2+3+4
D - 1+2+3+4 (1+3+4 is a half-step sharp)
Db - 1+2+3+4 (same fingering as D, but I lip the note down)
Alternately, if I'm doing a lot of playing below F# below the staff, I pull both my 4th valve slide and the 4th valve kicker slide out (about 2 inches combined). The 3rd valve slide is also out 1/2 inch. With this combination, I can't use the 4th valve to help with D and C# just below the staff (they'd be too flat). But this combination gives me better intonation for notes below F# below the staff, and lets me avoid the alternate valve combinations.
F - 1+4
E - 1+2+4
Eb - 2+3+4
D - 1+3+4 (still maybe a tad sharp, but easy to lip down)
Db - 1+2+3+4 (still maybe a tad sharp, but easy to lip down)
Finally, for notes from pedal C down, I use normal fingerings. These note are easily played in tune. That's not the problem. Instead, the problem is that the character of these notes is different, and resonate much more than the notes just above them. Because of this, I have to back off a bit when playing pedal C or lower.
C - open
B - 2
Bb - 1
A - 1+2
Ab - 2+3
G - 1+3
F# - 1+2+3
Mike |
this is the best reference for the Getzen Eterna 896 4 valve! so valuable for future reference! so I will throw more question to you Mike.
To clarify, you would use the first configuration for normal playing and still got satisfactory intonation around the high and low range and use the second configuration when you play at the lower register and the intonation of the low notes has to be exact?
what do you think about the 4 valve horns with trigger(s)? do you think they make better sense to adjust intonation with triggers instead of pulling out the slides before playing?
from what I see from your setting, it seems that a trigger at the 1st valve slide is not enough to compensate for the intonation problems at the lower range.
from what I see, the only 4 valve flugels are the Kanstul 1526 and Courtois 156R
thanks so much for your reply! much appreciated |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2421 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:15 am Post subject: |
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lnsrain wrote: | this is the best reference for the Getzen Eterna 896 4 valve! so valuable for future reference! so I will throw more question to you Mike. |
These valve combinations, after much trial and error, are what seem to work best for me. I'd be interested in hearing what others do.
lnsrain wrote: | To clarify, you would use the first configuration for normal playing and still got satisfactory intonation around the high and low range and use the second configuration when you play at the lower register and the intonation of the low notes has to be exact? |
Correct. I use the first setup for the vast majority of my playing, and rarely use the low range (below F# below the staff) that much anymore. This works well for me.
lnsrain wrote: | what do you think about the 4 valve horns with trigger(s)? |
I've not tried 4-valve flugelhorns with triggers. But a 1st and 4th valve trigger could be very helpful, instead of relying on pulled slides and alternate valve combinations.
A first valve trigger could also help with other notes, like A's on the staff, which tend to be a bit sharp.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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lnsrain New Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 5
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:32 am Post subject: |
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TrumpetMD wrote: | lnsrain wrote: | this is the best reference for the Getzen Eterna 896 4 valve! so valuable for future reference! so I will throw more question to you Mike. |
These valve combinations, after much trial and error, are what seem to work best for me. I'd be interested in hearing what others do.
lnsrain wrote: | To clarify, you would use the first configuration for normal playing and still got satisfactory intonation around the high and low range and use the second configuration when you play at the lower register and the intonation of the low notes has to be exact? |
Correct. I use the first setup for the vast majority of my playing, and rarely use the low range (below F# below the staff) that much anymore. This works well for me.
lnsrain wrote: | what do you think about the 4 valve horns with trigger(s)? |
I've not tried 4-valve flugelhorns with triggers. But a 1st and 4th valve trigger could be very helpful, instead of relying on pulled slides and alternate valve combinations.
A first valve trigger could also help with other notes, like A's on the staff, which tend to be a bit sharp.
Mike |
i see the two 4 valve flugelhorns with triggers all have their triggers on the first slide. I guess it is due to limitations of engineering (maybe it is impossible to put a 3rd slide trigger after adding the 4th slide)
my best guess is that it is not useful in tuning the notes below F# due to the short length of adjustment (I have a courtois 155R with 1st and 3rd trigger), but to alleviate the sharp A note mainly.
correct me if I am wrong |
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GuidoCorona Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2014 Posts: 377 Location: Summerville, SC
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hi lnsrain, there are a few other flugels with 4-valves... I know at least of the Stomvi Titan 4-valver, and the Adams F4 distributed in the US by Austincustombrass. of _________________ Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo |
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dershem Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1889 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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lnsrain wrote: | dershem wrote: | I had one of those for 10-15 years. It's a decent horn, if a bit 'trombone-y' due to the large bore. Intonation in the low register is what the 4th valve is best for - you can tune the 4th to be in tune for 1-3 combinations, and not worry much. The pedal register ... not gonna perfect on any horn, but this one is pretty easy to lip in tune. I wish I still had that horn, but it was stolen.
As always, the mouthpiece you use is crucial. |
wow thanks! which mouthpiece would you recommend?
do you think the notes reached below F# using the 4th valve are in tune? i expected the need to lip down a bit since they are probably sharp anyway |
I was using a custom Jet-Tone back then (use a custom Marcinkiewicz now), so ... you have to use what works for you not for some other person who probably has very different lips from yours. As for intonation ... as with all horns, it starts OK, and the more valves you use, the slipperier it becomes. |
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omelet Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Posts: 245
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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TrumpetMD wrote: | lnsrain wrote: | do you think the notes reached below F# using the 4th valve are in tune? i expected the need to lip down a bit since they are probably sharp anyway |
Finally, for notes from pedal C down, I use normal fingerings. These note are easily played in tune. That's not the problem. Instead, the problem is that the character of these notes is different, and resonate much more than the notes just above them. Because of this, I have to back off a bit when playing pedal C or lower.
Mike |
I have one of these horns made about 1980. The fourth valve really gives you access to another register but, like he said, it just pops down there and can be hard to make speak without blasting out a farty pedal. |
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trumpetmike Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 11315 Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:58 am Post subject: |
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As has been said, these can easily sound trombone - I have got one but mostly use it for teaching, where I can duet with my trombone/euphonium students at their pitch.
I found it far too "big" to regularly use as a flugel. |
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GuidoCorona Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2014 Posts: 377 Location: Summerville, SC
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Most of my flugel pieces are for the Bach shank... Does anyone know if alternate mouthpipes compatible with Bach-shank mouthpieces can be ordered for the Getzen 896? ... Either from Getzen directly, or from some other source?
Regards, G. _________________ Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2421 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:44 am Post subject: |
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GuidoCorona wrote: | Most of my flugel pieces are for the Bach shank... Does anyone know if alternate mouthpipes compatible with Bach-shank mouthpieces can be ordered for the Getzen 896? ... Either from Getzen directly, or from some other source?
Regards, G. |
The Getzen 895 and 896 come standard with a large/yamaha shank. However, they offer a small/bach shank, which you can purchase through any dealer. This is not true for the 3895 (and presumably the 4895), only for the 895/896.
I purchased a small/bach shank for my 896 about 8 years ago for maybe $20 or $30.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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GuidoCorona Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2014 Posts: 377 Location: Summerville, SC
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Mike for the information... Now knowing that Bach shanks are available, I feel a lot more comfortable getting an 896 at some future.
Regards, Guido _________________ Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo |
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jazzlaw New Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2008 Posts: 3
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Great info on this post. I just picked up a used one with a KH serial number in the low 200's. According to the serial # list on Adams music it is a '68-'71 range horn. It is in great shape.
Is there using a pinkey the only way to use the 4th valve on this horn? I have a 4 valve pic where I use the index finger of my left hand for the 4th - so this will be learning curve. |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2421 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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jazzlaw wrote: | Great info on this post. I just picked up a used one with a KH serial number in the low 200's. According to the serial # list on Adams music it is a '68-'71 range horn. It is in great shape.
Is there using a pinkey the only way to use the 4th valve on this horn? I have a 4 valve pic where I use the index finger of my left hand for the 4th - so this will be learning curve. |
Congratulations!
I use my pinky on he 4th valve. But I think some use their left index finger.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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HornnOOb Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 897 Location: East of the Sun & West of the Moon
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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I like my Getzen 896 far better than I liked my previous Kanstal 900 Custom Classic. The 896 with a Getzen 3C flugel MP gives me that smooth classic flugelhorn sound.
I don't use the 4th valve very often, but I suppose it's good to have the extra valve just in case I hit a sharp and I get a flat, I'll have a spare!
It's a very nice horn and I'll never be looking for another flugel. _________________ I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.
Severinsen Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna 900S Severinsen Model
1984 Getzen Eterna 896 Flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special Cornet
Denis Wick 1C Heavytop
Getzen Flugel 3C |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1890
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Anybody thinking of buying one of these should try one out first. I find it very uncomfortable to hold. |
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