Vincent BACH 1 popularity issue

Kamyar · Regular Member Joined: 24 Mar 2015 Posts: 17

Hi All,

Why BACH 1 mp, specifically "1", not "1X" nor "1C", etc, is not popular? What's wrong with it?

Regards,

Kamyar

Ralph · Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:15 am Post subject:

Thin rim and a huge cup volume. Most people just don't have the chops or care to work that hard. I have one with a Schmitt backbore. Sounds great for 5 minutes and inside the staff. I can play other large mouthpieces without much problems like a schilke 20 or stork 1. The Bach 1 is just too big with an unforgiving rim which gives no chop support at all. I find the rim to be the biggest obstacle.

Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1888

The 1 was basically a signature mouthpiece. It was the style of mouthpiece that Vacchiano used. Most people can't use such a large mouthpiece with a thin rim. It is much bigger than a 1C, which is already very large. Bach didn't produce signature mouthpieces, unlike Yamaha, who have made many. Some of them were pretty exotic, and nobody but their namesakes could play them. (Who knows if even they could use them?).

VetPsychWars · Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:33 pm Post subject:

Kamyar · Regular Member Joined: 24 Mar 2015 Posts: 17

Bill Dishman · Heavyweight Member Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 1174

I love the "straight" 1 mouthpieces. Have been using this model with variations of back bore and throat for years. I like the sound and actually have better range with it as it gives my lips room to maneuver.

My NY "1" is a little different from the more recent 1's in the rim shape and diameter. I like it better than any other mp.

Bill Dishman
Gainesville, Florida

Kamyar · Regular Member Joined: 24 Mar 2015 Posts: 17

Vin DiBona · Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:47 am Post subject:

If your mouthpiece indicates Bach 1 only, you have a huge "modern" Bach 1 mouthpiece.
If it indicates Bach New York 1 or Bach Mt. Vernon 1, you have an older, smaller version. Even these smaller (although still very large) mouthpieces require considerable chop strength to fill and play with any authority.
The modern Bach 1 model is wider in diameter, has a much sharper, narrower rim, has more cup volume, and it is even more difficult to control.
For many players, even skilled and experienced players, it is too big and uncomfortable to consider.
Here is a look at the markings on Bach mouthpieces over the years.
http://bachloyalist.com/mouthpiece/mouthpieces_variations.htm
Look here to compare the Bach 1 models. (And others).
http://kanstul.com/mpcJN/Compare/CompareJRFF1.html
There are larger mouthpieces than a "modern" Bach 1, such as the Schilke 20, 20D2d, 22, and the gigantic 24, but not many.
R. Tomasek

Kamyar · Regular Member Joined: 24 Mar 2015 Posts: 17

Vin DiBona · Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:38 am Post subject:

The Schilke 20 is about as close as they get. It doesn't have quite the cup volume and is not quite as wide, but has a larger 26 throat and a slightly larger back bore.
It is a very, very open mouthpiece and requires chops of steel and complete wind control.
Check out the link to the Kanstul Comparator. Warburton has some very, very large mouthpieces in their 1 size.
R. Tomasek

Big Dave88 · Veteran Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 479

Actually, a Shilke 22 is closest to a Bach 1.

The 20 is closer to a large 1c.

The 20d2d is LARGER than both the 20 and 22.

Speaking form personal experience here.

I played a Schilke 20 for quite sometime several years ago, and experimented with all the huge mouthpiece offerings without going custom. Even dabbled on a few 20d2d's, but it was way more work for the level of sound you get. Law of diminishing returns I suppose. I still use a 20d2d from time to time, but ONLY from time to time!

_________________
"Bud didn't worry about this..."
-Barenboim

ewetho · Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:16 am Post subject:

Vin DiBona · Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject:

Schilke mouthpieces are based (roughly, anyway) off New York and some Mt. Vernon Bach mouthpieces.
The OP asked which large Schilke was closest rim wise. The 20 rim does have a similar shape, but that is about it.
The 20D2d is certainly bigger than the Bach 1. That is the Georges Mager model and is very, very hard to play for just about anyone.
I have tried all those giant Schilkes. The biggest I can play for any extended period of time is my 45+ year old 19.
I tip my hat to anyone who plays those monsters! I know the late Wilmer Wise played on a 24 for some time.
R. Tomasek

Bill Dishman · Heavyweight Member Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 1174

I take a stab at the Schilke 24 trumpet and cornet mp's at home in practice once in a while. They "eat" me alive.\

Bill Dishman
Gainesville, Florida

musicman0097 · Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:55 pm Post subject:

I tried a modern Bach 1. Never again. WAY to big for me. It was fun to mess around with and see what sounds I could get.
_________________
Matthew Porter

"There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, learning from failure"- Colin Powell

GordonH · Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:34 am Post subject:

I played on a Bach 1 from 1988 to 2002 with a brief spell on a Schilke 20 in 1994. Here is my take on it:

If you are in regular practice then it is a solid option for orchestral players. Because I didn't do much playing for a few of those years It allowed my embouchure to spread out resulting in a chop rebuild becoming necessary. I should have moved to smaller mouthpiece.

For people looking for a big sound who don't do a lot of practicing it might be better to look at deeper mouthpieces rather than wider. Bach 6 or 3 might be more helpful.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

Kamyar · Regular Member Joined: 24 Mar 2015 Posts: 17

GordonH · Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:40 am Post subject:

No, they are significantly smaller and easier to manage.
I was playing 3 to 5 hours a day when I started on the Bach 1.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1888

Kamyar, If you are a beginner, you shouldn't be playing a Bach 1. Get a middle of the road mouthpiece, like a 6C, 5C or 7C, and then forget about mouthpieces. Then get to work.

cheiden