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AndrewS Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 125 Location: Richmond Hill
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:41 pm Post subject: Puffed cheeks, help! |
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As my cheeks age with me they tend to puff more than before.
Also they start to hurt at times.
I wonder if there are techniques to hold them back.
Now I am at the point of not being able not to puff anymore.
Thank you,
Andrew |
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derekthor Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2012 Posts: 480 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Try practicing while watching yourself in the mirror. Sometimes, actually seeing what you're physically doing and catching and stopping yourself is enough to break a habit, much like recording yourself and listening back. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2331 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:46 am Post subject: |
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Puffing happens when you release/relax the muscles that hold the cheeks in place.. the mirror is a good suggestion, holding/touching the cheeks while playing will also help you identify (feel) the area that you need to support.
A definite need to break this habit - facial structural damage will continue to occur = more pain! It won't just go away, you must correct it.
As you're practicing, start easy, maintain unpuffed position, and stop immediately when your cheeks puff out. It is a habit. One that you must break. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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AndrewS Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 125 Location: Richmond Hill
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, guys!
Actually for the last couple of days I've been practicing in front of the mirror watching my cheeks.
Now, backed with you suggestions I'll continue to do so since I already see some improvement! One of those cases when just watching the system you can affect it.
So far, when trying to hold the cheeks I feel some unnecessary embouchure tension, but I hope it'll go away once those new cheek muscles learn how to activate. |
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trumpetteacher1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3404 Location: Garland, Texas
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:40 am Post subject: |
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From the BE perspective, a cheek puff is neither good nor evil. It is a tool that can be used in moderation, like any other.
In regular playing, you can normally barely see a puff in the BE players who use one. Of course, some players may puff a more noticeable amount and still play well, but they are in the minority.
The goal is balance. If you are overdoing the puff and using it as some kind of crutch, then it will likely be difficult to sustain.
Jeff |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 832 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Watch some videos of Scott Wendholt playing. _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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AndrewS Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 125 Location: Richmond Hill
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Yes, Jeff, that's what happened to me.
I was overdoing puffing so overtime I was looking more and more like Dizzy.
I know that James Morrison and Arturo (and many more prominent players) puff their cheeks, but it doesn't look grotesque and it works.
In my case I let it run wild for too long, time to trim it down. |
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AndrewS Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 125 Location: Richmond Hill
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Watch some videos of Scott Wendholt playing |
His cheeks look very tame compared to mine |
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Bert Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 729
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I am a bit ambivalent. Being a BE teacher and player for over ten years, I know what good a puff can do. I have a slight puff above high G myself. With my students I rarely say anything about it, but sometimes I see a Dizzy-like puff wih beginners, and I cannot let it go completely. If a student can play a second line G without a puff, that is fine. When a student can only play it with a puff, I usually let it go, but I always ask if he or she can do it without the puff. If so, I steer towards the 'non puff', if not, I let go. I have one student with a Dizzy-style puff who has easy access to the higher register (a 10-year old, two years on the trumpet, and can play G top staff without too much trouble, but with a noticable air pocket in both cheeks). Without the puff, tone suffers and range is limited to a very stuffy C. Maybe he looses the puff later on, maybe not.
I even advised some of my students to use an air pocket to improve. All of the people that I advised to do so, don't have it anymore, but it triggered a better lip position.
FWIW. _________________ http://cdbaby.com/cd/triobertlochs
http://cdbaby.com/cd/lbh
http://bertlochs.blogspot.com |
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AndrewS Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 125 Location: Richmond Hill
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I am a bit ambivalent. |
Thank you, Bert, for your comment.
I think think the key here is whether it hurts or not.
When it does, the ambivalence goes away.
I am just guessing that for a younger student having cheeks the Dizzy-style wouldn't add any uncomfortable strain or tissue damage.
For an older student (say after 40) it could be a different story.
It it helps with the tone/register and doesn't add any issues it's probably ok to blow like that.
If it starts to hurt, you need to think how to reduce it, there is no other way around it since it causes permanent tissue damage. |
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Dan O'Donnell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 2287
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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I've heard that puffing your cheeks out helps to produce a very calm and mellow tone quality and some pros do this when wanting a note(s) to have that sound during a performance.
I watched videos of Chuck Mangione and it seemed like he did it when playing in the mid to lower register when the piece called for that type of sound such as holding a smooth long note.
Has anyone heard this before or know anything regarding this? _________________ God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell
"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3 |
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AndrewS Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 125 Location: Richmond Hill
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Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | I've heard that puffing your cheeks out helps to produce a very calm and mellow tone quality and some pros do this when wanting a note(s) to have that sound during a performance.
I watched videos of Chuck Mangione and it seemed like he did it when playing in the mid to lower register when the piece called for that type of sound such as holding a smooth long note.
Has anyone heard this before or know anything regarding this? |
I guess it depends on the individual as we all achieve different sound effects using whatever works.
As for me, since I started not to puff my cheeks my tone became less mellow, but it will change once the lips get used to a new position and the tone will become mellow again.
Trumpeters also blow cheeks for different reasons like circular breathing, but that in itself doesn't change their tone much since they can control it. |
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Bert Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 729
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:15 am Post subject: |
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My tone doesn't change if I blow my cheeks or not. Not much difference anyway. Blowing cheeks in the low register looks relaxed, maybe that is why people do it, because it looks relaxed and because it feels relaxed. I don't think it has to sound as relaxed as it does, though.
I can do circular breathing from the time I do BE, because of the puff. _________________ http://cdbaby.com/cd/triobertlochs
http://cdbaby.com/cd/lbh
http://bertlochs.blogspot.com |
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trumpetteacher1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3404 Location: Garland, Texas
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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Watch some videos of Scott Wendholt playing. |
Hey Russel, a belated thanks for the recommendation! I only now checked it out. He definitely is an an example of a player creatively using some degree of puff.
Jeff |
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