Natural/Synthetic Valve oils

jgadvert · Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:28 pm Post subject:

Blue Juice and the 5 Starr oil I have been using are synthetic..but I need a natural oil for my touchy, sticky valves. Is Al Cass real?
Is that yellow crap from Holton real?(BTW..Holton has a clear formula that works better)

Can you name some natural oil brands and where I could order it?

OCTA-C · Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:00 pm Post subject:

I'm pretty sure Al Cass is made of natural petroleum distilates.
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_PhilPicc · Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:50 pm Post subject:

On my Zaja Blue bottle it says it contains Petroleum Distillants and TFBS(tm) additives. I have never had much luck with the synthetics but alot of players have.

Good Luck,
Phil
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Lawler Bb · Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:27 pm Post subject:

Blue Juice is NOT synthetic. It is petroleum based.
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jgadvert · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:38 am Post subject:

I'm thinking that many of the synthetic oils "contain pertroleum distilates".
Which..to me means they are only partially natural. At any rate..they don't work very well. How about Wesson? ha ha

BTW: There is nothing wrong with my valves. Just a pro horn with very tight precision valves(that I clean literaly every other day). I asked the manufacturer for help. He hooked me up with a guy in my area..but I have to physicaly visit the guy..and so I'm looking for one of these interent instrument supply sellers who will ship it to me.

musiclifeline · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:44 am Post subject:

Al Cass "Fast" and Viper Oil are two of the most common natural oils. Why exactly do your valves require this? I've had sticky valves that were cured by a couple month's worth (about a third of a bottle) of Hetman Synthetic oil...

Zaja is also a natural oil, though it seems slightly thicker than the others. Still works great for me though. Or you could order some Bach valve oil from either Selmer or your local shop. That's also natural.

jgadvert · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:16 am Post subject:

Right..Viper Oil. Where do I get it?(who sells it). I don't last a set with the fast Al Cass stuff..without having to re-oil. Almost like the valves absorb it...literally disappears

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

I thought that "Viper Oil" was normally handled by most Yamaha dealers? At least that is where I found it. I'm now happily using Binak Pro, however. It works in tight valves (Schilke). I used to have tons of problems with Al Cass on three different horns (trumpet, cornet and flugel) with gummy valves. Now I clean and relube once a week with no problems at all. Viper Oil was working for me as well but I like the Binak better.

I believe (could be wrong) that the problem originates with the petroleum distillates that may combine with some people's "body chemistry" to cause the problem. IOW, what works for one may not work for another.

musiclifeline · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:32 am Post subject:

If Cass evaporates too fast, Viper Oil might too. Might want to try Zaja, as it's a little longer lasting... but here's a link to Viper Oil I got off of Google:

http://www.musicalinstrumentdepot.com/c/Clark/Clark_Viper_Oil_1_1_4_oz_420378.htm

oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:12 pm Post subject:

Hello all,

Just shooting off my advice here, try it or don't-but I don't know why the idea is out there that natural oils work better on tight, sticky valves. I heard this here at the Herald, and find it not true for me-when I used a bottle of Musichems pro-oil (the clear variety) it worked MUCH better for my Conn V1-VERY long lasting, and VERY slick, if you cleaned the valves properly, first. Conversely, the conventional stuff-no such luck. Valves seem to freeze up MUCH sooner, and never last as fast from the get go. I've used Blue Juice (the best of the best for non-synthetic, I would use that if not a synthetic), Yamaha, Holton, Al Cass (lasted, but not nearly as fast as my pro-oil was), and Dr. Dan's Black Lightning Valve Oil-by far the worst!! Required a re-application every half hour! Granted the spray bottle bit is neat and gimmicky, it isn't THAT convenient, and the oil didn't work well for me at all. I would like to try Zaja, Viper Oil, and Fat-Cat among others, but of what I have used, the synthetic pro-oil definetely worked best so far, just make sure to follow the directions!

Tepmurt718 · Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:53 am Post subject:

Alisyn is great synthetic oil and last a long time. It gums up if you mix it with other stuff, so make sure your valves are clean before you use it, and it's relatively expensive ounce for ounce, but it lasts a long time. By the time it's time to reoil, your horn is overdue for a bath anyway. But valve oil is such a personal decision- between the colors and smells and bottles- not even talking yet about how well it works or not- only you are going to know when you've found the right stuff.

jgadvert · Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 7:22 am Post subject:

Holy Crap!

I checked "musicians friend" internet company for the Viper Oil and they only wany $2.09 a bottle. Heres the kicker..they want $5.95 to ship it to me USPS priority. Think thats the only way they will ship. Comes to over $8.00. $5.95 to send me a little bottle of freakin valve oil (at least the company claims its a "blend of oils")

I'll surf a bit and see if I can find it cheaper. If not..I'll probably pop for it.

_Happy Canuck · Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 7:43 am Post subject:

If you are willing to try a new oil, try Fat Cat Oil http://www.fatcatoil.com/

In fact you can get a sample sent to you for free!
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Olds L-12 Flug/GR Butcher 65.6FL
Schilke MII trumpet/GR Butcher 65.6M

jgadvert · Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 12:45 pm Post subject:

Hey Happy Canuk!

Thanks for the reco(and to everyone else!). The narural Fat Cat stuff is definetely one to try. I wish all valves were like Getzens..just about any oil and they are as smooth as can be (even the cheap Holton stuff..which I am sure works just fine on many other horns..but not mine!).

Man! One tiny speck of anything on my valves and they stick. Getting sooooo tired of cleaning these valves.

MaynardProdigy · Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:09 pm Post subject:

I have used Al Cass Fast oil for about 7 years with great results. Then again, thats all I've used on my strad since I bought it.
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Tom K. · Veteran Member Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 483

It seems like your valves have loose tolerance valves, not tight ones, if Cass is evaporating that fast. In that case, use a thicker oil like Holton.

oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:40 am Post subject:

I tell you, I still contend that if you thoroughly clean sticky valves, synthetic oils work great. But if you do insist on natural, I found Blue Juice to be the best of the naturals I have tried.

ARB · Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 5:50 pm Post subject:

I use Hetman (which is a synthetic) #1 on my Schilke and #2 on my vintage horns and I have not had a problem.
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Jazzalive · Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:01 pm Post subject:

Binak 495

dwm1129 · Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:56 pm Post subject:

I play a Schilke B-1 that was made in the mid 60's and is the best horn I have ever played, anyways the third valve started to stick just a little, I was at my witts end and was ready to sell it when someone gave me bottle of Binak. It fixed it right up, I will put the Bink on move the valves around for few seconds take them out again and wipe the valves off I do that every couple weeks. I use Binak on all my horns now, instead of Al Cass...it works great for some people, but Binak saved my Schilke.