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Winghorn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 2164
Location: Olympia, Washington
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 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Based on John Mohan's write-up, I just ordered an S5M trumpet mouthpiece with an S backbore and 27 throat.
A number of years back, I acquired a Mt. Vernon Bach 3C mouthpiece. It had the most wonderful sound and response imaginable. The rim was perfect for me, and I felt I had finally found "the one". Well, I loaned it to the principal trumpet in one of the major orchestras and when I got it back, it had been converted to a screw rim! That was the end of my dream...
I am hoping the S5M will have some of the qualities of my lost love, and with a 25% holiday discount, its purchase was a no brainer for me. And yes, the sevice I received during the ordering process was second to none. It is clear that Jim is striving for excellence in both products and customer service.
During the last 15-20 years, I have been playing on another dream mouthpiece. It is a Mt. Vernon Bach 1-1/2C that I acquired new old-stock. I have a matching cornet version as well. For me, nothing can touch them. If the S5M turns out to play like I am hoping it will, I will be a happy man indeed!
Sincerely.
Steve Allison |
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Martinharris
Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2015
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:31 am Post subject: |
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I'm afraid that the S5M will feel significantly sharper than a mount vernon Bach 3C.
I'm just saying this so people don't get the shock that I got |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Harry Hilgers wrote: | I would like to give some feedback on my recent mouthpiece experience with Jim New.
And while I am at it I would like to share the level of my experience with several horn manufacturers while living through the past 18 months safari of acquiring trumpets (Bb and keyed), BBB cornet and Mangione-flugel to fill me need as comeback-player.
On a scale from 0 to 10, where ten is best and zero is poor, my experience with Jim New is a 10000. Yes, that says 10-thousand.
Here was the issue. All my life I have had a tendency to play flat on most any Bb trumpet or cornet. When a horn is cold, the slide would be all the way in. Once warmed up it would be out about 1/4 inch.
So when playing with a group that tends to be playing "together-in-tune" but a bit on the sharp side, my slide all the way in would still leave me a bit flat and I would have to "lip everything up a bit" resulting in some loss of brilliance.
The only exception was my 1984 Bach ML 184G cornet and my recent Schilke B6. After I did some careful measurements, the total tube lengths for both these horns was at the low end of the length tolerance; so they by nature played a little at the sharp side.
I explained all this to Jim and he suggested a shorter backbore for my Kanstul S14 top. So a custom piece. Well, I figured that such a custom piece would cost me "an arm and a leg".
Well, guess what, Jim charged my in fact an EXTREMELY reasonable price.
I received that custom backbore about a week ago. I have now played it extensively on ALL my Bb trumpets (except the Adams A5 which by now should be on its way back from Trent Austin).
Results: Drum roll please ......... When cold, I can now pull my tuning slide out by an extra 1/4 to 3/8 inch. So in other words, the effective tube length of my Bb trumpets is reduced by that much.
I just ordered another copy of the same backbore. After that I will order a few more back-bores to go with a few other Kanstul tops.
In what I am going to say next, I fully realize that I am preaching to the choir. Yet, some things just need to be said more often. Especially when it comes to professional services in a very competitive brass instrument world.
1. Jim New, thank you so much for helping me on this crucial intonation issue. Custom work at the highest level. Customer service at the highest level.
2. While I am at it, I also want to thank Jack Kanstul for his professional service. I have been working directly with Jack on MANY horns. So I will repeat: Custom work at the highest level. Customer service at the highest level.
The Kanstul 1537 gives me that wonderful 37 tonality, that I once had in a yesteryear Bach 37 (that was played by me and my son to the point where the pipes ended up with corroded pinholes; I know, we should have cleaned it more often).
The Kanstul flugel 1525 is the best Chuck Mangione flugel I have ever played.
The Smith-Watkins K2 Cornet (made by Kanstul that I bought directly from Jack) was the end of my BBB tonality Cornet safary. For me it gives (with my mouthpiece) the BBB tonality that is in my mind.
(I truly feel that Louise had one of those oddball SW K2 horns and she received a not-so-nice customer service from Smith Watkins. If she would have been living in the USA she could have gone directly to Jack Kanstul and he would have taken care of it).
Hi Harry
Regarding this, Phil Parkers were very good and after their tech found a score in the valve casing of my K2, they said that they were going to return it to Smith Watkins. They ordered in another K2 for me to try alongside another they had in stock, but I had been put off by this stage by a email I received from Richard Smith in reply to one I sent him, asking some advice regarding the valves, before I contacted Phil Parker (in hindsight I should have contacted the retailer first). I swapped my K2 for a Sovereign which I've now sold after never really liking. I'm very happy with the used Yamaha Xeno I eventually ended up with, so all ends well.
3. Next, Trent Austin has gone out of his way to help me on the Adams A5 valve issue that was none of his doing. He send it all the way back to The Netherlands (BTW, my country of birth) and I should get it back shortly. Class customer service. The A5 is my Doc's horn (well, at least in my mind that is....).
4. Next, dealing with Schilke has also always been at the highest professional level.
5. Lastly my Getzen Eb cornet, that I bought locally, gives me the BBB sop tonality that I was looking for.
I felt I had to share the above with all of you on this forum.
Thank you for your very interesting post, which I really enjoyed reading. It is really nice to hear reviews of great service and people being very happy with their equipment.
Take Care
Lou
Cheers,
Harry. |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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jadickson
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1294
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| Martinharris wrote: | I'm afraid that the S5M will feel significantly sharper than a mount vernon Bach 3C.
I'm just saying this so people don't get the shock that I got |
You're not wrong. If someone is expecting the rim to be like the Curry 3C or the ACB mv3C, they will be "shocked."
On my chops, the rim feels more like a modern Bach 3C, but the cup and sound are much more rich. It's the best of both worlds. It happens to be everything I hoped to find, but I understand that it may not be what other people expect.
_________________
Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com |
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Harry Hilgers
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 637
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | | Harry Hilgers wrote: |
The Smith-Watkins K2 Cornet (made by Kanstul that I bought directly from Jack) was the end of my BBB tonality Cornet safary. For me it gives (with my mouthpiece) the BBB tonality that is in my mind.
(I truly feel that Louise had one of those oddball SW K2 horns and she received a not-so-nice customer service from Smith Watkins. If she would have been living in the USA she could have gone directly to Jack Kanstul and he would have taken care of it).
Hi Harry
Regarding this, Phil Parkers were very good and after their tech found a score in the valve casing of my K2, they said that they were going to return it to Smith Watkins. They ordered in another K2 for me to try alongside another they had in stock, but I had been put off by this stage by a email I received from Richard Smith in reply to one I sent him, asking some advice regarding the valves, before I contacted Phil Parker (in hindsight I should have contacted the retailer first). I swapped my K2 for a Sovereign which I've now sold after never really liking. I'm very happy with the used Yamaha Xeno I eventually ended up with, so all ends well.
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Hi Lou,
Thanks much for the update on your SW K2. I did remember some issue with it, but I forgot the details.
Cheers,
Harry |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| Harry Hilgers wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: | | Harry Hilgers wrote: |
The Smith-Watkins K2 Cornet (made by Kanstul that I bought directly from Jack) was the end of my BBB tonality Cornet safary. For me it gives (with my mouthpiece) the BBB tonality that is in my mind.
(I truly feel that Louise had one of those oddball SW K2 horns and she received a not-so-nice customer service from Smith Watkins. If she would have been living in the USA she could have gone directly to Jack Kanstul and he would have taken care of it).
Hi Harry
Regarding this, Phil Parkers were very good and after their tech found a score in the valve casing of my K2, they said that they were going to return it to Smith Watkins. They ordered in another K2 for me to try alongside another they had in stock, but I had been put off by this stage by a email I received from Richard Smith in reply to one I sent him, asking some advice regarding the valves, before I contacted Phil Parker (in hindsight I should have contacted the retailer first). I swapped my K2 for a Sovereign which I've now sold after never really liking. I'm very happy with the used Yamaha Xeno I eventually ended up with, so all ends well.
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Hi Lou,
Thanks much for the update on your SW K2. I did remember some issue with it, but I forgot the details.
Cheers,
Harry |
Hi Harry
You are very welcome.
As I said previously, I'm not bothered about it at all. In a roundabout way, I ended up with the cornet I really liked initially and should have gone for in the first place, I was just worried about the tone not being quite so rich. I wouldn't change now if someone paid me.
I'm however really glad that you like the K2. Great cornet in my opinion.
Take Care
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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gbshelbymi
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1032
Location: Travelers Rest, SC
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for this review and thread. I've ordered a S5M top and S backbore, both with 25 throats, taking advantage of his 25% Christmas discount! Should be interesting.
_________________
Greg
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Getzen 3850 Custom - Kanstul 1525 Flugelhorn - Getzen Severinsen Eterna LB - 70s Bach 180ML37 - 70s Bach CL 229 25C - CarolBrass Pocket - 40 Conn 80A etc.
Last edited by gbshelbymi on Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TKSop
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Big fan of Jim's S rim and MS cup, so much so I ordered a set of tops (S, MS, M, D) with delrin screwrims, which Jim doesn't advertise but will do on request (very reasonably priced, too).
Very much looking forward to taking delivery. |
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Trumpetingbynurture
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 898
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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So I got those Jim New pieces a couple of days ago. Specifically I bought the S & P backbores and the W7D and W7M tops.
I was travelling before hand and had to miss a few days practice so I didn't trust the first days results over much.
Two days on, however, and holy moly am I in utter love with the 7D + P backbore combo.
For me, the P backbore is just phenomenal and the D cup is responsive and colourful and just a total joy to play.
Most times when I buy a mouthpiece if it's a 'keeper' it's a pretty small amount of improvement, generally in a specific playing aspect. For example, the sound might be a touch more focused, or articulation a little crisper or something pretty small. Normally there is a different 'feel' with the mouthpiece, and you kind of adapt to it. But the change and improvement is normally pretty small. Maybe it seems to do something 1 or 2 % better than the alternatives. Normally the better it does one thing, the more of a trade off somewhere else.
This combo for me feels like a 15+% improvement to me. It's huge. Like "Wow, I can suddenly do a lot of the things I've been struggling with for ages" and "Wow I sound actually pretty freakin' damn good!".
I know this is not really anything necessarily to do with Jim's mouthpieces or their design. I think it's more that I've found something that seems to work with my mind and body, rather than against it.
I was always skeptical about the Stork and GR stuff about matching mouthpieces to players - particularly the resistance - I kind of thought it was just one of those things that you adapt to. Apparently they were right, I just hadn't found my match yet.
And it makes me think that a huge part of the reason that some people do really have early success on the trumpet is that they luck into a good mouthy piece match. And if you look around, you'll see that a lot of the famous classical players have been playing basically the exact same mouthpiece since they started.
So I'm pretty freakin' happy right now!
As for the mouthpieces themselves... They're beautiful. The tops and backbores are in a bach-style blank and the backbore aesthetically connects to the cup in a very pleasing way. Doesn't look like a two part mouthpiece at all.
The sound with both of Jim's backbores - the S and P - were just wonderful and really did match the name I think. I compared them to a #8 and #9 Warburton backbore, and for me, the S & P were hands-down a more elegant and well-balanced sound. Rich, vibrant and responsive.
The 7D is similar to a bach 1 in size I would estimate, but with a Vish cup that is very, very efficient and responsive. It really plays with the ease of a much shallower mouthpiece, but with the huge rich sound of a deep cup, and the ease, response and flexibility of colour V cups are known for.
The Wide rim I chose because I have lips with a lot of pink tissue (hence the wide diameter) but which aren't particular thick between the teeth and the mouthpiece, so that helps with that. The bite is noticeable with the W rim, and does remind you when practicing when you've had the mouthpiece on your face too long and hard, but I think I like it. Clean articulations, good endurance. If you rest like you're supposed to, you always feel ready to go from the first note.
Great mouthpiece. Play tonnes better than any bach or yamaha I've tried!!! |
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cjl
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: TN
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| gbshelbymi wrote: | | Thanks for this review and thread. I've ordered a S5M top and S backbore, both with 25 throats, taking advantage of his 25% Christmas discount! Should be interesting. |
I ordered the S5M and S6M tops and an S backbore in the hex blank all at the discount pricing. I emailed Jim New on a Saturday, he replied almost immediately that they were in stock. We completed the order, he shipped them on Monday and I had them on Wednesday.
My Mt Vernon 3C is wider than modern Bach 3C's. From the descriptions in this thread I wasn't convinced that the 5 was the best match. I found the 5 to be smaller in diameter than my MV 3C and the 6 a little bigger. I find both the 5 and 6 are playable by me. (Kind of similar to the Hammond 5 and 4 in sizes. I find the Hammond 5 a little small but playable and the 4 a little big but playable. I have used both the Hammonds 4 & 5 in certain situations.)
I am well pleased with my New pieces and look forward to a more rigorous comparison with others in my collection. For reference, I have been recently playing a Pickett-made Blackburn 3C (I have a Warburton-made one but I like the Pickett-made one a tad better) and a Warburton Arturo top.
I especially like the hex-shape on the backbore. It makes sense. Every piece ought to have a hex portion to facilitate removal. A hex shape on the bowl section? On a screw rim? Why not?
-- Joe |
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Trumpetingbynurture
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 898
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| cjl wrote: |
I especially like the hex-shape on the backbore. It makes sense. Every piece ought to have a hex portion to facilitate removal. A hex shape on the bowl section? On a screw rim? Why not?
-- Joe |
Hey Joe,
Put a little tuning slide grease on your threads and you'll never have a problem with the top and backbore becoming stuck together. |
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cjl
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: TN
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Trumpetingbynurture wrote: | | Put a little tuning slide grease on your threads and you'll never have a problem with the top and backbore becoming stuck together. |
I agree and have done that but not as often as I should.
Actually, I have never had pieces get so stuck that I couldn't remove them with the duct tape and screwdrivers trick.
I still want to commission a piece with a hex nut removable rim, a hex bowl and a hex backbore. I just think it would look interesting 
-- Joe |
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9830
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| jadickson wrote: | | Martinharris wrote: | I'm afraid that the S5M will feel significantly sharper than a mount vernon Bach 3C.
I'm just saying this so people don't get the shock that I got |
You're not wrong. If someone is expecting the rim to be like the Curry 3C or the ACB mv3C, they will be "shocked."
On my chops, the rim feels more like a modern Bach 3C, but the cup and sound are much more rich. It's the best of both worlds. It happens to be everything I hoped to find, but I understand that it may not be what other people expect. |
I haven't experienced what you two experienced at all! The rim on both the copy of Arturo's Mt Vernon 3C that James New made me, and the rim on his S5M cup feel very comfortable and not sharp at all. And I find them to feel almost exactly the same on my face as Curry's 3C. rim.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
_________________
Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9830
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| cjl wrote: |
My Mt Vernon 3C is wider than modern Bach 3C's. From the descriptions in this thread I wasn't convinced that the 5 was the best match. I found the 5 to be smaller in diameter than my MV 3C and the 6 a little bigger....
...I am well pleased with my New pieces and look forward to a more rigorous comparison with others in my collection.
-- Joe |
Hi Joe,
Note that James' S5M size is identical to Arturo Sandoval's favorite Mt Vernon 3C, which itself is a little smaller in diameter and depth than a typical Mt Vernon 3C (as we all know, they varied). So it makes sense that your Mt Vernon 3C lies right between James' 5 and 6 sizes.
Here are scans James made me several years ago comparing two of Arturo's Mt Vernon 3C mouthpieces to the scan of the Kanstul MV3C (a typical Mt Vernon 3C):
https://s25.postimg.org/6pcfylrkf/BMV3_C_comparisons_1.gif
https://s25.postimg.org/ejhmxqor3/BMV3_C_comparisons_2.gif
https://s25.postimg.org/x0c1ok4pb/BMV3_C_comparisons_3.gif
Click on the images to open them up full-sized in a separate Window.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
_________________
Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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cjl
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: TN
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hey John,
I generally prefer the wider MV 3C rim. For example, I like the older, no-dot Curry 3 rims. I had some of his newer 3 dot pieces but really never liked them and ended up selling them all.
I knew that the New 5 was probably more like the 3 dot in size which is why I got the 6, too.
So far I like the feel of the New 5 size. I need to try a recorded comparison of all the pieces I am experimenting with these days as I am not convinced that what I feel and hear actually sound the best out front. Maybe an experiment for the holidays!
(For some reason I have never really cared for the Reeves 43 size, preferring the smaller 42. That's a smaller diameter piece that feels good, unlike the Curry 3 dot pieces.)
-- Joe |
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markp
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 2814
Location: Coarsegold, CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Loving my 6MS cup and C backbore.
I'm able to get a warm sound with lots of agility in the mid-range and low register--perfect for ballad and bebop playing in small groups. I was surprised. I thought the C backbore would be too bright. Not so.
But when it's time to peel paint in the upper register--no problem. |
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Locutus2k
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 635
Location: Rome, Italy
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:26 am Post subject: |
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I have received the S5MS + S5D and backbores S+C (both with gap enhancement feature).
Well ... i'm really VERY satisfied. The MS cup could be the final lead cup for my chops. Great rim (i didn't find it "sharp" at all) lots of room for chops (i bottom out on shallow pieces), sparkling sound.
The D cup is just nice and mellow but not too "dark", i think i can play anything on it.
The backbores are a nice surprise, too, and as someone already noticed the C (Commercial) backbore is not tight at all, it just adds a bit of brilliance.
AND the gap feature is simply Amazing, i don't understand why all mouthpieces/backbores aren't created with this useful feature.
My only complaint could be in size: the S5 size is maybe an hair bigger of what i was expecting. I suspect that the S4 could be a better fit. Mavbe i'll take advantage of the end of year discount and order an S4 cup, too.
I want to thanks Mr. John Moahn for pointing me out in the right direction!
_________________
------------------------
Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
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Locutus2k
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 635
Location: Rome, Italy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:48 am Post subject: |
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After a few days i can confirm that the pieces plays just great for me and the backbore with gap modulator is Amazing.
The S5MS size seems to be an hair bigger for my lips, so taking advantage of the season discount i've ordered a couple of S4 cups. I just can't wait but i think they will be just right. I have great expectations!
_________________
------------------------
Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
------------------------ |
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lexluther
Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 108
Location: Northwest, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:08 am Post subject: |
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I ordered a S5M and a S5MS with the S backbore. Jim was fantastic to work with. I love dealing with people and business's that have a "sense of urgency" with what they are doing. I am currently playing on a Bach Commercial 3MV. It will be interesting to compare these pieces with the Bach. I am especially looking forward to the MS version. I wonder if he has a Cornet bore, I forgot to ask?
_________________
Bb - Schilke B6, SB4-MG Soloiste
Bb - Yamaha 8310Z II, 25th Anniversary Xeno
C - Yamaha Artist Chicago Xeno
Flugel - Getzen Custom Reserve 4895
Eb/D - Yamaha 6610
Cornet - Bach Strad 184ML |
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TKSop
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| lexluther wrote: | | I ordered a S5M and a S5MS with the S backbore. Jim was fantastic to work with. I love dealing with people and business's that have a "sense of urgency" with what they are doing. I am currently playing on a Bach Commercial 3MV. It will be interesting to compare these pieces with the Bach. I am especially looking forward to the MS version. I wonder if he has a Cornet bore, I forgot to ask? |
He'll make cornet backbores but doesn't stock them. |
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