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Wcobb New Member
Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 4
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:25 am Post subject: Learning Jazz improvisation |
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I've seen videos on YouTube like jazz trumpet licks, but I still struggle with the art of improvisation (i.e., what to practice, how often, etc.). I know a lot of it is muscle memory, but does anyone have any tips for my comeback? |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9193 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:14 am Post subject: |
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If you're looking for guidance on what and how to practice jazz, you can read Jerry Coker's "How To Practice Jazz". www.jazzbooks.com
For a free read on evolving improvisation read, "Lee Konitz' 10 Step Method", http://www.melmartin.com/html_pages/Interviews/konitz.html
Play piano to study/hear chords/scales/licks.
Listen voraciously.
Begin transcribing solos.
If you're really basic, you can read and play Volumes 1. 2. and 54. (Also from www.jazzbooks.com). You can also download helpful material from that site.
Good luck and have fun. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale).
Last edited by kehaulani on Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:23 am; edited 2 times in total |
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trumpet.trader Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2017 Posts: 200
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:19 am Post subject: |
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These are some things that I think of when improvising and have helped me along the way. They might apply to your situation, or maybe not.
Keeping it simple at first is what helped me. Make simple melodies and try to phrase your melodies in two or four bar phrases. If you can make a theme and variation on your melodies, youll keep the interest of the listener more.
Stay inside the pocket of the chord changes at first and use defining strong pitches like thirds and sevenths to outline your changes. The rhythm section defines the root and fifth of the chord enough so I try not to overuse those pitches. Try to connect changing chords through half step passing tones in your lines so you land on a defining pitch of the new chord on the beat.
Try some basic piano/keyboard in your practice routines. Play the chord with your left hand and simple melody in your right. This helped me to visualize what I play as well as hearing it.
I've found no book or teaching method to really learn the knack of making melodies/composing. Learning basic theory and some jazz vocabulary will help get you started but application is all up to the individual. Lots of repetition on easier forms like a blues or rhythm changes or some of the modal Miles tunes with only a few chord changes and lots of room to experiment are good places to start.
Spending time and picking the brain of a friend who has more skill whilst playing Abersold play alongs is time well spent. When you hear something you like ask "what did you do there?" or "what would you do over this change or progression?" this has helped/helps me a lot. |
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Drklobz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 526 Location: Denver, CO
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vwag Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2016 Posts: 180 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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+1 on Jason's material, working thru it now. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2599
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Learning Jazz improvisation |
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Wcobb wrote: | I've seen videos on YouTube like jazz trumpet licks, but I still struggle with the art of improvisation (i.e., what to practice, how often, etc.). I know a lot of it is muscle memory, but does anyone have any tips for my comeback? |
Players are typically in a hurry to play "licks" so they jump into improvisation without having developed the basic fundamentals.
The first thing you need to learn to do as a foundation to becoming fluent in improvisation is to learn simply to improvise a melodic line staying within the chord changes as you do so.
Just walk through the changes, first playing just one whole note per measure. When you can do that perfectly play two half notes per measure. When you can do that perfectly play four quarter notes per measure. When you can do that perfectly play eight eighth notes per measure. You're essentially imitating the bass player just walking through the changes.
What you're trying to achieve is the ability to instinctively stay within the melodic structure. Everything is organized around the melodic structure. If you don't develop an instinctive sense of playing within the melodic structure you're going to get lost. A lot.
You crawl before you walk. You walk before you run. You build fundamental skills in order to progress. The most basic fundamental skill necessary to be fluent in improvisation is the ability to maintain the melodic line.
Foundational to developing this skill is to become fluent on all scales and arpeggios. So practicing those is a primary priority. That's where you start. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Russell Iser New Member
Joined: 17 May 2017 Posts: 5
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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How far can you develop just by playing by ear or with play alongs... Just wondering what peoples opinions are... |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5865 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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The info in this thread is terrific!
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32146 _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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Angiemac811 New Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2017 Posts: 5
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:03 am Post subject: |
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I had good luck practicing with Jamie Aebersold books. I used them in college a Lot! |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9193 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Russell Iser wrote: | How far can you develop just by playing by ear or with play alongs... Just wondering what peoples opinions are... |
Russell, just now seeing this. I hope you're still checking this. FWIW, I went totally by ear until I would get to a stumbling place, then learned enough theory to resolve those questions.
What I'm saying is that the ear should lead the way.
And to answer your question more thoroughly, I think it depends on what kind of music you're playing. Some music is extremely complex and a knowledge of the theoretical principles in that tune would be helpful, if not downright necessary. However, early (and subsequent in that style) was entirely by ear. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale). |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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All great resources above.
But you have to know your scales inside and out /up and down/ the degree of each note in the scale, all 12 keys in all reasonable modes, 16th notes and in 2 octaves preferably. I am working with a guy who studied with David Baker and this has been stressed to me, and I have a lot of work to get there.
I do 1/2 hour of scale and scale related work (3rds/5ths/ now 4ths) arpeggios and work in specific problem keys at least once a day and usually twice and this really isn’t enough to get really good. In the meantime dont forget to play along with ? 45 minutes last thing at nite. That leaves time to address all my other inadequacies the rest of the day. This is how I try to learn improv. And I also use slow downer program when I want to learn something really tough. I think this helps me develop my sound, and not copy anything. Also really helps with ear training and identifying root and key changes. I like blues and out there fusion so the play alongs haven’t done that yet. Once I learn to hear and play in the correct key I might actually know what my teacher is talking about when he shows me how to put it together???? Just so much to learn about the structures of scales the sounds and colors of each that you should definitely put some effort into this. I started knowing all scales in 1 octave, and quickly found I knew nothing at all and that this was THE KEY to improv (feel dont hurt either).
Rod |
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oregonmac New Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2015 Posts: 6 Location: Salem Oregon
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:53 am Post subject: |
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It’s daunting. One thing I do regularly is take a simple standard and play it in all keys, just trying to get it under my fingers. It seems to take forever, but it really does help. _________________ Mac McGowan |
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