Are Bach Strads THAT good?

jazzartizt1742 · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:39 pm Post subject:

Are Bach Strads all that they're made out to be?

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horn-still a sad Yamaha 2335
mouthpeice-Schilke 15C4, Bach 3C, 7C, Yamaha 11B4.
Union Grove High School Band!!!
Sustachek-2nd Chair freshman.
What Happened to just practicing?!?!?!?!

[ This Message was edited by: jazzartizt1742 on 2003-11-11 15:44 ]

musiclifeline · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:50 pm Post subject:

Yes and no. You have just begun what will very soon become a very long thread. The short answer is that, like any horn, if you find a really good one (craftsmanshipwise... most if not all hornmakers are not perfectly consistent from horn to horn) that really fits you well, then it will be "all it's cracked up to be."

No horn brand is inherently great... it must be well-made and must fit the player and the mouthpiece.

(I hated Bachs until I happened upon a 1974 Strad 72* that fit me just right.)

Horn reputations are often BS. I've seen Bachs with crappy valves and with great valves (mine), and I've seen old Conns with crappy valves (mine) and great valves.

That said, if you can find an older Strad, it's more likely to be a good horn, as production quality declined after the 1970s I believe. Though I've seen excellent ones from the early 80s...

[ This Message was edited by: musiclifeline on 2003-11-11 15:52 ]

LFRoberts5 · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:51 pm Post subject:

Bach Strads WERE that good!
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BADBOY-DON · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:56 pm Post subject:

You ought to hear how Alan Vizzutti sounded playing a young students 23 at a Clinic a few years ago.
Yes...practice, practice..with passion and with a goal in mine works wonders. That 15 is a wonderful mouthpiece and old Yama with proper maintence...will serve you well...as it has many others. BACH is just another purty name...but sooooo many purty' names and equally great horns but like the songs says..."Down to the Bare Bones, Baby" it were the rubba'(the choppers) meet the road...meet the Yaaaameee, n allthatjazz.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hey, even Nick Payton plays that great old Bach of his...along with that beautiful Golden Conn Vintage One...but I would betcha' my old beater Besson...that He would sound virtually as good on that old beater yamaha 23 of yours, huh?

jazzartizt1742 · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:57 pm Post subject:

yes this will be a very very long thread!

fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:09 pm Post subject:

You just asked a very loaded question.... If you find a good playing Bach Strad... you have a gold mine... if you find a bad one.. you have a lemon.
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trumpetmike · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:20 pm Post subject:

Oh this is going to be a good thread to watch! I can see this rapidly becoming an all-out brawl between the Bachaholics and everyone else!

I have played loads of Strads and played just one that I enjoyed. Unfortunately it belongs to a fellow member of Surrey Brass (one of his 38 (at last count!) Bb trumpets!!!) and he doesn't seem to believe in selling instruments. I have played allegedly identical instruments (same leadpipe, bore and bell size) and they didn't even come close.

Oh well - will stick to my Yamaha.

People who swear by the Bachs ("you must have the Bach sound" and all that stuff) will, of course, say that they are worth every penny/cent (bilingual

), personally I can't see what all the fuss is about.

JoeWats · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:25 pm Post subject:

I have an older one made back in the early 1970's and it's a great horn. The new ones I've played
in the past several years lack the quality in the older horns.

JW

FlugelFlyer · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:30 pm Post subject:

Even these days, when a Bach's made right, it's pretty damn hard to beat. I only have a ML bach, yet it was made so well on the crapshoot that most people who try it think it's large bore, EVEN WHEN IT'S DIRTY!!! Unfortunately, my third valve has crusted over and probably won't ever be as fast as it used to be. I'm sure if I had the horn chemcleaned well and a major valve overhaul, I'd have something as good as any horn out there.

Also, I heard there were some old 3C's out there that played like 3E's they were so shallow. Can anyone verify me on this? Strangely enough, my modern 3C is noticeably shallower than my 1-1/2C or 7C, albeit not by much. Interesting though, and I still swear it's shallower than most other 3C's.
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_PhilPicc · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:48 pm Post subject:

I have a 1972 strad that I love. As has been mentioned, I have played other fine strads and I have played some dogs. The played that sits next to me has one of the anniversary strads and while most of it is fine, he has a second valve that just keeps hanging up.

I would suggest that you find a horn that suites you no matter what the brand.

I'm quessing 4 pages before it's over.
Phil

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[ This Message was edited by: PhilPicc on 2003-11-13 10:06 ]

jazzartizt1742 · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:54 pm Post subject:

sorry i just like starting stuff! yah prally 4 or 5 depends on who strikes first bach's or everyone else lol
sorry if i offended n e one with me question!
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trumpetmike · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:57 pm Post subject:

No offence - have needed a good laugh recently and I have a feeling that this thread will provide one soon!

As for "what happened to just practicing?" - you discovered that there is more to life?
Just a guess, after all - you've discovered TH now, who needs practising :wink:

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetmike on 2003-11-11 16:58 ]

jgadvert · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:22 pm Post subject:

Maybe I'm lucky...but I've never played a Bach Strad that deserved to be called a dog, lemon, hunk of junk etc....In fact..I would be shocked to try one that didnt play at least OK.....to much, much better. Overall..it is a quality..well respected brand.

jazzartizt1742 · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:24 pm Post subject:

hey i think i like this trumpetmike dude lol he speaks the truth tho

DavesTrumpet · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:41 pm Post subject:

Never played a Yamaha I liked. Oh, that wasn't your question.

Just more fuel to the fire. I really shouldn't have.

Dave M

TimBrown · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:37 pm Post subject:

This past spring I sold my 1969 Laquer Elkhart Strad 37. I still miss it; not because of playability but because it was purchased for me by my parents when I wa in High School band. My band director really pushed Bachs...and of course the snob appeal was a strong influence on me at the time.

the horn sat for many years till nearly two years ago when I was off work with a bone infection for four months. I picked the thing back up. Being afriad of dinging the horn, I got a cheap Olds Ambassador on Ebay for $50. It was a good practice horn because it was really stuffy...maybe because the valves needed work; it was beat up.

AFter a month of the Olds, I picked up my Bach and the notes flew out of it... Then I ran into Trumpet Herald and started reading about Bach trumpets....pro and con. Out of shear curiousity (and because when I was a kid I liked Herb Alpert) I ended up getting an Ebay Benge Burbank. It instantly increased my range and endurance. I would play the bach, get tired, then go to the benge and I was fine. The bore on my 37 was .459 and the Benge is .464.

My pastor told me that he immediately noticed improvement in my sound with the Benge. I was always playing my Bach like a lead horn and the sound would break up. The benge doesn't do this. So, I view the Bach as more of an ensemble/orchestral instrument and not a lead horn...which makes sense to me based on what Band directors want.

I sold my Bach for $900 to a guy in Germany who is in a brass ensemble (http://www.hoferblech.de I think). He loves it. I'm happy for him...and think that is where the horn belongs, not for screaming lead parts.

Did I have a lemon? I don't know. I have no way to know; it's the only one I had. When I was taking lessons as a kid, my teacher had a Bach from the 50's....whether it was a Mt. Vernon or New York, I don't know. I played it once but don't remember noticing any difference. One of these days maybe I'll give him a call and confirm my suspicions...he still lives in the area.

Just from my experience, I'd categorize *my* bach as an ensemble horn. For that it was fine.

Tim
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Trptbenge · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:31 pm Post subject:

Some Bachs are that good! The best Bachs I have played are early Elkhart. I have a 1973 Bach 37 that plays like a dream. I have played an excellent NY Bach and 4 different Mt. Vernons - 3 that were so, so and one that was amazing & it was the newest one (1962). The Bach I have can do it all. It has an even tone throughout my range with a solid core. In the last 6 years I have owned over 30 different horns. I have had several Bachs - all of them were from very good to outstanding. During that time I have played probably close to 200 horns - many of them Bachs that were sub par. I have also played outstanding horns which included: LA & Burbank benges, Olds Recordings, Callet Jazz, Kanstul Horns, Bessons, Wild Things, Getzens, Conn V1's, Yamahas and Lawlers. I have also played plenty of the same horns that I didn't like. Some of the horns were bad and some just didn't work for me. There is a reason that Strads have been so popular. A really good Strad is a very versatile horn. It has taken me a long time to find the one I have now. It was well worth it.

Mike

[ This Message was edited by: Trptbenge on 2003-11-11 20:32 ]

bgwbold · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:08 pm Post subject:

I would just advise everyone to not take anyone's word for it on a particular brand and find out for yourself what you like and sound good on. Some people just match up with a particular horn and can make it sing. For some strange reason msot of us sound better on anything the more we practice.

Mike

Levermann · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:54 pm Post subject:

Thank you, trtpbenge, for the wisdom. This is exactly what I think. I purchased more than 40 horns the last years and tried mabe hundred.
My 1969 Strad 72 is still there while all the other horns were sold after a while.
No matter it was Taylor, Courtois, Schilke, Stomvi, Kanstul, Burbank, Benge, Yamaha, Thein, even a few Olds..

Zachary Music · Veteran Member Joined: 30 Oct 2002 Posts: 271

Yes, Bach is definitely the BEST and by an astronomical margin as well. Big corporate America can do no wrong and the average person is there with full support. It must be the personal attention they receive.

The owner of one of the best brass instrument companies once told me the percentage of Bach trumpets sold. The percentage of all trumpets sold that is. I forget now what the number was but I remember being really shocked. Nothing can touch Bach. Most people who buy it care nothing about its quality and performance as long as the name is there, its pure magic.

So millions of people cannot be wrong. It’s the only trumpet everyone should be playing or at least owning. My advice to all other manufacturers is just shut your doors right now. Proof is in this thread as well.

In fact, I am willing to bet that if Vincent Bach came back from the grave and started a trumpet company again, he would have no chance and would go bankrupt in no time.
Alex
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