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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:34 am Post subject: Harmon Mute Recommendation |
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I love my H&B Wah Wah Du-All "Harmon mute", but it weighs a metric crap-ton, and my wrist is not what it used to be.
I need recommendations for a straight-sided Harmon. I have the H&B bubble for when I want such a thing, so please do not recommend the bubble.
I see the Harmon Model B, the Mutec, the Wick... any of those markedly better? Also, I need an aluminum mute, not copper.
If you have a vintage mute in good condition (no dents), I might be interested.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Not a fan of the Wicks at all (comfortably least favourite of any harmon-type mute I've ever used or heard).
I recall weighing all the ones I had a while ago for a thread, done a quick google to find it for you (though obviously the copper Harmon brand and the bubble aren't relevant):
(WoS= without stem, WS = with stem)
- H&B wawah du all - 165.8g WS - 130.5g WoS
- H&B wawah du all (with all paint removed) - 146.2g WS - 114.8g WoS
- JoRal copper bubble - 193.1g WS - 157.7g WoS
- Harmon brand copper - 164.2g WS - 134.8g WoS
- Denis Wick - 86.6g WS - 68.5g WoS
What's interesting is just how much weight in the H&B is down to paint - though I think the biggest problem is that it's very bottom-heavy, so it *feels* heavier than it is either way. |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:03 am Post subject: |
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You're right, it's mostly balance.
The lacquer is really thick on the H&B.
Horn Trader is selling the Emo brand....
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Emo is my favorite, it is very light and has a buzz that will cut through. I also have a Joral bubble for section work with other "bubble heads" and a copper Harmon brand which sounds great but has intonation issues. |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:31 am Post subject: |
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+1 on the Emo. It's definitely the lightest one I've ever used and has a very loud buzz. I play a very lightweight horn (8310z) and I love the Emo because it doesn't unbalance the trumpet. It's also quite in tune for a Harmon, at any rate.
I haven't tried the Trumcor "Zinger," does anyone know if those are light or heavy? _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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trumpet.sanity Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2016 Posts: 763
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: |
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I have an old Harmon mute, and agree about the weight.
Ever thought of sanding it down? I had a friend's Harmon I played, and the weight, response and buzz was insane. I couldn't figure out why his played so much better than mine.
He told me he how he sanded his down, to almost half the weight. I tried it with my copper Harmon, and holy cow!! What a difference.
Intonation is still wonky, but manageable |
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MrOlds Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2003 Posts: 725 Location: California
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:44 am Post subject: |
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I like the Best Brass Harmon. Pricy but sounds good. |
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Mike Sailors Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Charley Davis aluminum harmon. _________________ www.mikesailors.com |
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Uberopa Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 931 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
I have not tried the Emo which is spoken of quite highly.
I have tried or owned many of the usual suspects. I can concur with the Best Brass recommendation. It is vey light with a ferocious buzz. It is a bit fragile if one is careless with it. I am waiting on the Soulo harmon style mute. Their cup and straight mutes are terrific.
Brian |
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AJCarter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2007 Posts: 1280 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Harmon brand seems to have quite a few models available on their website, and I've heard OK things about the Mutec ones too.
If you like your bubble but it's too heavy, why not go with an aluminum one? the Jo-Ral aluminum is pretty light. _________________ (List horns here) |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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AJCarter wrote: | Harmon brand seems to have quite a few models available on their website, and I've heard OK things about the Mutec ones too.
If you like your bubble but it's too heavy, why not go with an aluminum one? the Jo-Ral aluminum is pretty light. |
The H&B bubble is aluminum, and it sounds a lot better to me than the Jo-Ral; I tried them both and sold the Jo-Ral (Hi, Eric!).
H&B Harmon and bubble are heavyweight.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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Odneal's Inferno Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 424 Location: Houston (Baytown), Texas
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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I have the Humes and Berg, Jo Ral (both) and most recently bought the Trumcorp on Doc's endorsement. I will compair them but at the moment I use the Trumcorp. The Humes & Berg is a loud mute and I have used it in big bands successfully. _________________ Bob Odneal
Maynard Ferguson Alumni
Casual Double High C method
Casual Double High C Zoom Lessons
Music Educator
www.bobodneal.com |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Turkle wrote: | I haven't tried the Trumcor "Zinger," does anyone know if those are light or heavy? |
The Trumcor Zinger is light weight. It plays well in tune for a harmon mute. I've found it cuts through even when I just relax and don't try to push it too hard. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:04 am Post subject: |
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dstdenis wrote: | Turkle wrote: | I haven't tried the Trumcor "Zinger," does anyone know if those are light or heavy? |
The Trumcor Zinger is light weight. It plays well in tune for a harmon mute. I've found it cuts through even when I just relax and don't try to push it too hard. |
Thanks! This mute has been on my radar for a long time, I'll eventually order one... _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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Lawler Bb Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2002 Posts: 1140 Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:29 am Post subject: |
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VetPsychWars wrote: | AJCarter wrote: | Harmon brand seems to have quite a few models available on their website, and I've heard OK things about the Mutec ones too.
If you like your bubble but it's too heavy, why not go with an aluminum one? the Jo-Ral aluminum is pretty light. |
The H&B bubble is aluminum, and it sounds a lot better to me than the Jo-Ral; I tried them both and sold the Jo-Ral (Hi, Eric!).
H&B Harmon and bubble are heavyweight.
Tom |
Hey, thanks for selling me an inferior sounding mute! I second Mike's recommendation of the Charles Davis aluminum harmon (they are excellent-I have the copper version and really like it), and also trust Steve Dillard's (HornTrader) recommendation of the Emo. He has videos of the Emo on his website and YouTube. _________________ Eric Sperry
www.ericsperry.com
www.facebook.com/EricSperryTrumpet/
www.instagram.com/milwaukeetrumpet/ |
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trumpet.sanity Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2016 Posts: 763
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Of all the mutes mentioned, besides buzz and weight, do you guys think one has better intonation than another?
I have a Harmon, and the intonation is a drag. I had a Jo-ral, but also got rid of it because even after sanding, was too heavy for me, and again intonation was an issue.
I know intonation is always going to be an issue, but which do you guys think has the least intonation issues? |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4810
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:59 am Post subject: |
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trumpet.sanity wrote: | I know intonation is always going to be an issue, but which do you guys think has the least intonation issues? |
I have a copper JoRal that about 5 years ago replaced my reduced-weight JoRal. The intonation on it is surprisingly good, and I have to move the tuning slide only a little to get it spot-on. I do that only for extended Harmon passages.
Not knowing anything about your performance experience, I find that young players overcompensate for the back-pressure of a Harmon by blowing too hard.
Something that I found that helps with Harmon pitch is I don't blow hard when it's in. Focused & energized air yes, but blowing hard - nope. If the Harmon passage needs to be brought out, I lean into the mic.
If it's a no-mic situation and the Harmons are getting covered up by the band, that means the band is not listening, and something should be said about that to the band leader. The sound of an overblown Harmon is not a good sound - there's no "shimmer," like what should be produced. _________________ Tim Wendt
www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be |
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iiipopes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 555
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:19 am Post subject: |
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My old original Harmon, which my Mom purchased for me NOS when I was in high school in the mid-'70's, and was at least ten years old forgotten on the back of a shelf then, is aluminum, light weight, has the curve that with the cork fits the bell properly and securely, and maintains the signature tone with excellent intonation. _________________ King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:32 am Post subject: |
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trumpet.sanity wrote: | Of all the mutes mentioned, besides buzz and weight, do you guys think one has better intonation than another? |
I have a Trumcor Zinger and a Joral Aluminum Bubble mute. The intonation on both is quite good. (And pay close attention to what trpthrld (Tim Wendt) wrote about how to play a harmon mute--he knows what he's talking about and this advice is great.)
For me, the main differences between these mutes are that the Trumcor Zinger is lighter weight, and it keeps buzzing as I get softer, past the point where the Joral Bubble stops buzzing (not completely, but the buzzing mostly fades out, leaving that pillowy, soft harmon mute sound). For these reasons, I prefer the Trumcor Zinger, although the Joral Bubble is still a fine mute and I would be happy to use it if I didn't have the Zinger. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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trumpet.sanity Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2016 Posts: 763
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Well, I'm sold on the idea...just ordered a Zinger.
For $85 bucks, it's worth my curiously. If I don't like it I'm sure I can sell it for a quick $50.
The intonation and buzz are what I'm really frustrated with on my other harmons ive had. Lets see if this can help me out.
Thanks guys!! |
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