Saddles and rings or triggers ?

Mr. Stomvi · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Apr 2002 Posts: 1062

OK folks - Which do you prefer on your cornet for 1st and 3rd tuning slides - saddles and/or rings or triggers ?

Seth Moore
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Billy Wilder

trumpetmike · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:32 pm Post subject:

For cornet playing - triggers.
Probably a force of habit, all the cornets I have played over the past few years have been triggered and I have just got used to that feel.
It might be that the sheer speed you have to have at your disposal when playing cornet parts means that triggers are slightly more useful - although I am very quick with the saddles and rings as well, but it is a thought.

I prefer rings and saddles on trumpets.
I would prefer a trigger on my piccolo, but as yet it only has a ring - one more for the repairman!

Mr. Stomvi · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Apr 2002 Posts: 1062

My Stomvi Master cornet has a 1st slide saddle and 3rd slide ring. I'm fairly decent with the 3rd slide but the 1st slide seems somewhat awkward to me. Maybe it's the placement or something. I took my Stomvi picc in to the repairman today to move the 3rd slide ring up toward the valve block a little bit as my hands are somewhat small. I never use the 3rd slide for pitch adjustment - just the 4th valve. If I did I would definatelyput a 3rd slide trigger on it as the ring is pretty awkward on the picc.

Seth Moore
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"He has Van Gogh's ear for music."

Billy Wilder

_dcstep · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:08 pm Post subject:

Saddles or rings for me, but I guess if I'd learned with triggers, I'd prefer that.

Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
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DavesTrumpet · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:21 pm Post subject:

I don't really have strong preferences, either one's fine with me on Bb, and I have plenty of horns with each. But I guess I do favor a trigger on Bb now that I think about it.

However, on C trumpet I prefer a hook because it can be extended further out - helps playing some of the really low notes.

Dave M

samlg · Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:34 am Post subject:

the idea of triggers is great but when they go wrong on a gig your buggerd! sometimes there flimsey and rattle about abit wich irritates me! for pure non fuss and ease id have rings put on all of my horns

have fun, sam

GordonH · Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:47 am Post subject:

Hello
The reason for triggers is that some cornets have the tubing laid out so there is a loop at the beill end of the main tuning slide (ala Besson, bach dont do this)
If it has thgis lop then you will likely have triggers, otherwise it will be a ring on the third.
I prefer to have all my instrumetns with ring and saddle as it makes switching easier.

Gordon

plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620

The patented trigger on the King Silver Flair trumpet (both H.N. White and UMI vintage) is one of the most ingenious designs you have ever seen. There are no screws or rods, and the first valve slide can be pulled off the horn instantly when the trigger is pushed all the way in. I like the feel of my Silver Flair for that reason, but my two main trumpets each have thumb rings on the first slide.

Edit. Oops, forgot that this topic was posted under cornet/flugelhorn. I don't own a cornet. Sorry.

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Schilke B1
Yamaha 731 flugel
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[ This Message was edited by: plankowner110 on 2003-11-14 21:44 ]

connloyalist · Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:48 am Post subject:

For 1st I definitely prefer a trigger.... I find it awkward to deal with a saddle on first. As for third, I haven't played anything else than rings, but I do like triggers so I would call the third split between rings and triggers.

Regards, Christine

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

I want to pose a question.
I have a Bach cornet with a ring on third and a trigger on first.
I don't like the trigger.
The question is, how do you do both slides for c sharp?

Mr. Stomvi · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Apr 2002 Posts: 1062

I was taught to extend the 3rd slide out for 1,3 valve combos and further out (way out) for 1,2,3 combos. All my horns at the moment have saddles on 1st slide and rings on third slides and I can easily throw both at the same time. Just depends how you hold the horn I guess. I have played a Schilke A2 which had a trigger on the 1st slide and ring on the 3rd and remember that I liked the trigger a lot. I don't remember trying to push and throw at the same time but I wouldn't figure it to be too hard.

Seth Moore
_________________
"He has Van Gogh's ear for music."

Billy Wilder

_PhilPicc · Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 12:02 pm Post subject:

Trumpetchops, I have never understood that design. It is impossible to work the two slides in conjunction with each other. It should be either be both throws or both triggers.

Now to the question, I have throws on my trumpet Bb, I don't have a C at this time, but I would have throws on that also. I have a trigger on my King SilverTone cornet that I had added.

Since I am used to both it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

Always ready to help out in surveys,

Phil
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trumpetmike · Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 12:25 pm Post subject:

As mentioned earlier, the King Silver Flair has a trigger (superb design, I agree!) on first and a ring on third - no problems.

Can't see why there would be a problem combining the two.

I go from my Yamaha trumpet (ring and saddle) to my cornet (two triggers) to soprano (trigger on first, ring on third) to Silver Flair (trigger and ring again) and back to my regular Yamaha trumpet with no problems regarding use of the rings, saddles or triggers.

mcamilleri · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 1:12 pm Post subject:

IMHO, a first valve ring or trigger is a waste of metal. A good horn should not need constant adjustments on the first valve to play in tune. I have owned a Shilke S32, Wild thing, and now a Yamaha 6335J, and didn't ever need to use it on any of them. Even my 1976 Olds Special doesn't need it (which is good, 'cause it doesn't have one!). I think manufacturers have turned this fault into a 'feature'.

For the third valve, I prefer a ring, as you can leave it out in a 'default' position that is very close to where it is needed for mid-range playing, without having to constantly squeeze the trigger. My flugel has a trigger - no other option, really, with vertical tubing.

The worst trigger I found was on a Sovereign Eb cornet. Slides with triggers generally need to be a bit loose to operate reliably, but this was so loose it leaked, rattled, and blew bubbles when you hit the right note and valve combination.

BTW, the slides on my Yamaha 6335J when new were sooooo smooth that emptying the water key would move my tuning slide, and the 3rd valve slide would slide out under blowing pressure alone if I didn't hold the trigger, or if I tilted the horn playing one handed. They were (and still are) totally airtight and tight fitting. With a bit of heavier grease, they have settled down. Not even my Schilke was built to such fine tolerances.
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samlg · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 1:32 pm Post subject:

theres one thing about triggers that i miss when playing trumpet, its when im turning a page or picking up a mute, the slide always extends and i end up with a two one third valve! not great when your in a rush. i look so stupid playing with my bell high up in the air trying to bring the slide back in. ahhhhh i miss cornet playing!

have fun, sam

oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:56 pm Post subject:

I am actually with mcamilleri here, on my V1 I find that I don't at all need to use the 1st valve saddle, only the 3rd ring. It seems like it has just been tossed on as a "pro" level feature, so its kept to keep horns looking "pro" needed or not.

Regarding which I use, I'm flexible. Used to be a trigger man, but I'm used to rings/saddles fine, too.

_dcstep · Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:40 am Post subject:

On some horns I use 1-2 to get the top space E high and bring it down with the 1st slide saddle, this is instead of lipping the open E up. When I do C# 1-2-3 I use a the same third slide kick that I'd use on the 1-3 D and add a little first slide kick, instead of pushing the 3d slide further. Occasionally, notes above the staff need a touch of 1st slide.

I find that I get better resonance by using the slides instead of lipping and like having a saddle or ring on 1 and 3.

Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

I have a Bach cornet. Maybe the trouble for me with the trigger and the slide is the spring on the trigger is too strong.

I play in a band with a couple of people that bought their trumpets from Mr. Bach. They don't have a way to adjust the first valve.
They told me that Bach would not put them on.

Personally I can't play in tune without it.