Has Anyone Test Played The Super Zues?

[histrumpet]

Ok, before the flames start licking up around my backside let me state that I "just want the facts" as Joe Friday would say.

Is there someone who is a qualified horn designer, builder, or otherwise an expert who can tell us what this horn really is? No smoke and mirrors, JUST THE FACTS.

[heavyharmonies]

Is it even out yet? I remember Alex posting here with all sorts of fanfare on how it would be available "next week" but that was a month ago...

There's a term for this in the software industry: "vaporware".

-Dan

[histrumpet]

Hi Dan,

I have heard the "fanfare", now I want the SKINNY!!!!

[Tootsall]

Just wander over to the TM site from time to time. Alex and his acolytes are busy over there with their own forum trying to whip up a frenzy for his latest "offering".


Edit: HEY! That could be the name of a new group..."Alex and the Acolytes"! Naaaa, too sixities.

_________________
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Getzen Eterna 800 LB (Sparx #4)
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[ This Message was edited by: Tootsall on 2003-11-14 09:02 ]

[Flip Oakes]

Hello Everyone,

Yes, I played it up at Kanstul's on 10/15/2003 Zig ask me to play test it, when I was up there getting some of my horns..... It was serial # 29311 and it was Raw Brass. And as Zig told me, you might as well play it as your customers will be asking you what's the difference between it and Your horn the Wild Thing.

I'm not going to A-B it to the WT, I'm only reporting as to what I found it to be, as it's now Nov. 14th I have now been asked by many, if I knew anything as to what it is..... And now someone here on the TH has asked.

It's a .470 bore, with over / under tuning slide, ( or inner / outer ) with 1 amado water key on the main tuning slide. It's all brass, no nickel anywhere, the actual bell is a bell that used for another horn, yes I know what, but I'm not saying, the only difference is he's made the bell flare 5 1/4" rather then 4 7/8". It's the same valve block used on the other Zeus only it's balled out to .470, the bracing, and hardware, is like the other Zeus. The thumb ring on the 1st. valve slide is like the one on the 3rd. slide, it's a bit small, so my thumb won't go through it. It has no 3rd slide stop, or water key. My concern would be, when the slides break in, there is nothing stopping it from hitting the floor. It's a very bright sound. I personally didn't care for the low, or middle registers, as to feel or sound. However it did play in the upper range at least to a "A" over high "C" as that's my range. I thought it played best with a shallow mpc. IMO the deeper mpc. cups, didn't play very well, and was stuffy in the middle register.

I was happy to see that it is much different then my WT.

All The Best,

Flip Oakes

Flip Oakes “Wild Thing Trumpets”
COME AND HEAR THE DIFFERENCE
http://www.flipoakes.com

"To read what Wild Thing owners say about their horns, click on this"
http://www.flipoakes.com/testimonials.htm

Flip Oakes
2559 Mottino Dr.
Oceanside, Ca. 92056
760-643-1501
760-643-1511 FAX

To Hear the Flip Oakes Wild Thing Trumpet go to
http://www.flipoakes.com/multimedia.htm

[histrumpet]

So, is this what is considered to be a super horn for this time period, the 21st century? What characteristics of this horn would you consider innovative? In veiw of all the hype, there has got to be more to it than this.

[pair of kings]

Since most of the complaints of the original had to do with the horn being stuffy, I am not surprised he went from .459 to .470 bore. Also the original was real bell heavy, I assume this one is not. Do you think the nickel is what gave the orig. all the weight?
I did read somewhere that this will be in the same price range. and I think he said it wasn't going to really be better, just different.
Do you think he provide the string that will be needed to hold the 3rd slide in?

[histrumpet]

I don't really know that there is anything to crow about. It is my understanding that the true mark of a really cheap horn is the use of brass throughout the entire instrument. Because I am not a designer or builder I was suprised to find out why a solid brass trumpet is not desirable. It seems that without the use of other metals (nickel) at the points where the slides are located you have problems with slides sticking or just not really working. I was also told that the cheap student horns are made this way to keep production costs down. I guess in light of this information we will not see the optional string to hold the slide included but some really heavy grease may be in order. The solid brass concept may be the reason the Zues is priced as it is. So, is this the way super horns of the future will be designed and built?

[Jeff Lambardino]

Posted: 2003-11-12 09:50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
X3L John,

Nice try and I appreciate your compliments on my great work and achievement in such a short time. I don’t think anyone can match what I have done. I have one of the best trumpets, cornet and flugel on the market and I am sure Vincent himself would be quite impressed with my products and what I have done.

The truth is that many people do like me, respect me and even admire me. This is why I am the most successful independent marketer of instruments on the TH. I am so successful that it makes other feel like losers. I have done it and followed my dream. As for you, I am not sure what you have achieved. Maybe you can let me know so I will respect you.

If I sold any more horns I would not be able to handle it, I am working at full capacity now.

Hang in there for the release of the ZeuperHorn.
Alex
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Now is it just me or is the above statement more than a little arrogant. Hey it's O.K virtually every post that I make at TH gets deleted or locked but I speak up when Alex and others get off their leash.
It would be obvious that with Alex who is already so busy and so much more successful than the other horn guys on TH? well .... perhaps it might be from his shameless marketing and promotional skills other than his ability as a custom horn designer?
I would respect Flip Oakes evaluation of a horn because he is a serious player who knows how to play and test horns.

A SUPER HORN so to speak is usually the result of a horn that surpasses the mass produced conventionaly designed horns on the market.

Jeff L

[gus]

Guys,

I can say that Mr. Zeus sometimes cross the line and I
do not like it, but I think that now that he was not allowed to
post in the Herald anymore and some of the posters here knows it perfectly, it does not look to me as a sound commercial practice to
bash a product that it is even in the testing field and not giving
Alex the chance to post something against this comments.

I agree with TH rules, but it should be applied to all the
posters, and to me what is happening here is incorrect.

Rgds.

Gus

[ This Message was edited by: gus on 2003-11-14 11:52 ]

[Mr. Stomvi]

Naw - Let's whack that turkey senseless

Seth Moore
_________________
"He has Van Gogh's ear for music."

Billy Wilder

[HorneyMikey]

Hi Flip,

Thanks for the review, and for finally letting the cat out of the bag. We all know that Alex would not or could not divulge who was making his horns. For me, all it took was one look at one picture of a Zeus and I know where it came from. Big deal........

But now you have confirmed it, to all but the staunchest of unbelievers.
i am also not surprised it has a .470. However, there are other ways to make a .460 bore horn (the original Zeus) play more open.

Zig is an honest and reliable businessman, but he is only making what is ordered. I figured the Zeuper Zeus bell would be off anotehr horn. Helps to keep costs down. And it sounds like the valve section is the same as the "Intermediate" line of Kanstul horns. Fore the money, they sound like a good deal.

Thanks again for the info.

mike

[ This Message was edited by: HorneyMikey on 2003-11-14 12:28 ]

[histrumpet]

Well Gus,

It's not about Alex this time, it's about a horn. A horn that is hyped as the best horn on the market at a bargain basement price. There are dealers who have had access to this horn, let them post their thoughts.

[MrVenturi]

Making a trumpet of all brass does not make it sub standard. When made of all brass generally you get a more even feel as the matching brass parts vibrate at similiar rates.
R. Lawler

[histrumpet]

Ok Roy,

I am learning something new everyday, that's a good thing.... now I consider your horns to be of good quality and workmanship so if I may be so bold as to ask, do the horns you build contain nickel and other metals or are they constructed of solid brass? And if they are solid brass how do you address the slide issues, or do you feel there are no issues regarding the slides sticking?

[bgwbold]

I was just about to post a similar comment regarding all brass horns, except from a player's point of view. It does not necessarily say anything (positive OR negative) about the quality of a horn because it is all brass.

Mike

[nieuwguyski]

Lightweight Bachs are all brass and I've never heard that they had problems with sticky slides.
_________________
J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[histrumpet]

Maybe we can get some more feed back from Roy, the question still remains, what is so special about this horn? There are other .470 bore horns on the market and there are other solid brass horns on the market. The bell is not a new design and does not represent a new concept in horn production, it is a standard assembly line part from another brand of trumpet. There has been no mention of a custom lead pipe, even though it sounds like it could use something more open to counter the inherent stuffy qaulity of the horn.

_________________


[ This Message was edited by: histrumpet on 2003-11-14 13:26 ]

[histrumpet]

So John,

The Bach trumpet uses no nickel on the slides? Like I said, I am getting some good info on this thread.

[Palestrina]

No, and I don't intend to. As soon as I buy one, they'll come out with a Super-Duper Zeus.