Has Anyone Test Played The Super Zues?

[jamesfrmphilly]

what Flip played was a prototype.
i think we should all wait until the production horn is released to the public.
as you know there can be important changes from test to production.
_________________
1946 Martin Committee, Bach 5V

[MrVenturi]

I make my trumpets mostly out of all brass. My inner tubing is rose brass for corrosion protection(no red rot). I do and will make trumpets with nickel outside tubing. If you have a problem with sticking 1st and 3rd slide it is most like likely fit of the tubes and or alighnment. The metal does not have to be different for good slide action. As far as pistons go nickel is a great coating as it will not embed with dirt or other matter. Getzen spent several thousands of dollors on reasearch of the material for there pistons and I believe it has paid off.
R.Lawler

[nieuwguyski]

Histrumpet,

Right -- the LT Bachs have no nickel-silver slide receivers or trim.
_________________
J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[_bugleboy]

I have played the new Zeus and found it to be very responsive and even playing in all registers, especially above high C. I found no unexpected or excessive resistance. The sound is big, but with not as much edge as I get on the Zeus Guarnarius. The G above high C is very easy to play. This was probably the single most impressive thing about the horn. This note is definitely part of this horn and it comes out loud and slotted.

I was able to get an extended and clean trill from tuning C to D above. That was an unexpected plus. There aren't many Bb's that I have played that can execute that trill cleanly no matter how hard I try.

The horn seems to be physically quite well balanced with very few braces, although I'm not sure how much all of that stuff really means to me when choosing a horn.

The slides all worked easily. I attached a very small gauge rubber band (about the size of a piece of string) between the 1st and 3rd valve finger rings as I have been doing with all my trumpets for many years. I would deepsix the black string that comes attached to the 3rd valve slide. With the rubber band the string is unnecessary and the rubber band is hardly noticeable. This, of course, keeps the 3rd valve slide from coming off when its on a stand and returns it automatically when it is extended. Same with the first valve slide.

Playing wise, this is quite a horn. The unpolished raw brass (similar to Monette) is not my 1st choice in looks though.

[PACtrumpet]

Since Alex cannot post on this forum he had asked that someone post this response for him:


Mr. Oakes did not play or touch the new ZeuS trumpet.
What he did do is see a page with about 40 high-resolution pictures and with a complete list of specifications on my website. This page was up on my site for close to a week and the link was disclosed to only ZeuS dealers and a select number of customers. Most ZeuS dealers are TH and TM members and will confirm this. My intention was to provide all the ZeuS dealers with an advance showing of the prototype trumpet yet under strict confidentiality which they were fully aware and respectful of. I have full confidence that none of the ZeuS dealers gave out the link to this page but my mistake was to also provide the link to some current and possibly future customers, some of which happen to be or were in the past WT owners. To my regret someone did not respect my strong wishes and the link to this page was leaked. The page is no longer up but will be uploaded again when the trumpet is ready for market.

Anyone with business experience would know that there is absolutely no manufacturer who would disclose a proprietary prototype to another retailer. This is absolutely absurd to even imagine.

I am shocked that Mr. Oakes would use this method and go to this level to try to denigrate my product even before it is put to market and at a time I am not able to respond on the TH. This is testament to his tenacity and business ambition, which I do respect on some level and I do believe he has a fine product. I know he designs and believes in his instruments with the same passion as I do and I can’t fault him for that. I understand his important concern, motivation and the reasoning behind his actions, although I would not have done what he did. I do want to assure him that I have no intention to hurt his business and his name did not even enter my mind when designing this new trumpet. This is why his actions are somewhat of a shock to me. I will not be making any comments about his product or publicly giving a false description of it as he has of mine.

It is no secret that I strongly believe that the quality and the performance of a horn have nothing to do with its final retail price. Price is simply a marketing tool that many in the industry have used very effectively. I have no desire to do that and have taken a different approach since the beginning. Again, I do things my own way and will not fault anyone if they chose to market their products differently. People should understand by now that I have the financial resources to create any trumpet at any price. Therefore, I don’t market anything that is second best regardless of what its selling price may be. I am guilty of making fine instruments affordable for everyone and this is something that I am very proud of and is central to everything I do in business.

Alex

[heavyharmonies]

There have been times I've posted in support of Alex, and times I've posted against him, but this is disturbing on several levels, regardless of which of the two scenarios is true.

1. One scenario is that, as Alex purports, Mr. Oakes did NOT in fact play the SZ. If so, bad on Mr. Oakes for claiming he did.

2. The other scenario concerns me more. Bad on Alex, because if this scenerio is true, he's lying about Mr. Oakes not playing the horn. BUT, if Mr. Oakes did indeed play a SZ, my question is this: Why is Kanstul allowing a *competitor* to play the horn before it has even been released to market?? If not illegal, it certainly seems unethical. I don't care if Mr. Oakes' customers will ultimately be asking for comparisons or not. Plus, even if you dicsount Kanstul's actions in allowing Mr. Oakes to test the horn, I'm surprised that he didn't wait to post disparaging comments until after the horn was released...

Regardless of which of the two parties you believe, it seems like both sides may be in the wrong here.

Just my $0.02.

-Dan

[ This Message was edited by: heavyharmonies on 2003-11-15 19:00 ]

[oneeyedhobbit]

I am in agreement with the last poster, this spells badness all around...

[GTM]

Zachary Music wrote:
Mr. Oakes did not play or touch the new ZeuS trumpet.
What he did do is see a page with about 40 high-resolution pictures and with a complete list of specifications on my website. This page was up on my site for close to a week and the link was disclosed to only ZeuS dealers and a select number of customers. Most ZeuS dealers are TH and TM members and will confirm this. My intention was to provide all the ZeuS dealers with an advance showing of the prototype trumpet yet under strict confidentiality which they were fully aware and respectful of. I have full confidence that none of the ZeuS dealers gave out the link to this page but my mistake was to also provide the link to some current and possibly future customers, some of which happen to be or were in the past WT owners. To my regret someone did not respect my strong wishes and the link to this page was leaked. The page is no longer up but will be uploaded again when the trumpet is ready for market.





I can confirm that Alex did post a link on his website to several pictures of this new trumpet - I saw them! If any of you have visited the Zachary Music website, you know that Alex is very good about taking VERY detailed pictures of his instruments! Same thing here! Alex took VERY detailed photos of this new trumpet, from which any reader could have easily read the trumpet's serial number.

This page on Alex's website also listed all the specs on the new trumpet - so that information would have been readily available as well, to all who saw it! Unfortunately, when I wanted to get my second look at this beautiful instrument (probably a week later), the "link" was already inactive.

Regardless of what is stated about this trumpet, I can't wait to try it out!

Blessings,

[Downunder]

I've read all the posts on TH and TM about this and cannot believe there isn't more condemnation of what's gone on.

Hardly anyone on the TH has raised an eyebrow - maybe everyone is too scared of the Moderators now or maybe the Moderators are deleting anything which may be seen as supporting Alex (seeing that they banned him from posting and all....)?

I don't know all the facts, however on the surface this appears to be very poor form on the part of some respected names in the brass community. I am very disappointed in their actions.

I am especially surprised that Flip Oakes would jump right in and post something like that knowing he is going to cause some grief. OK, he claims he was given a prototype to play on the quiet. I'd go ahead and play it as well, but I wouldn't be telling the world about it when the person who paid for it hasn't released the thing yet.

Again, very disappointing all round.

[WaxHaX0rS]

It all seems fishy to me. Flip Oake's story just doesn't seem right. And 95% of his post was about what it looked like (hmm, maybe he only saw pictures?). The other 5% was pretty generic and non-specific and could have easily been made up. I'm not saying it is made up, but as it stands now, I believe Alex.

[Flip Oakes]

Hello Everyone,

I probably shouldn’t have made the post I did... Please excuse me, as I thought this was a trumpet information site. When someone posts a question, someone who perhaps has the answer who is qualified answers. When I played the horn at Kanstuls, it was over a month ago.

histrumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: Nov 11, 2001
Posts: 544
From: Mobile, Al Posted: 2003-11-14 06:43   
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Ok, before the flames start licking up around my backside let me state that I "just want the facts" as Joe Friday would say.

Is there someone who is a qualified horn designer, builder, or otherwise an expert who can tell us what this horn really is? No smoke and mirrors, JUST THE FACTS.

Then.........

heavyharmonies
Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 100 Posted: 2003-11-14 07:19   
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Is it even out yet? I remember Alex posting here with all sorts of fanfare on how it would be available "next week" but that was a month ago...

There's a term for this in the software industry: "vaporware".

-Dan



I have had potential buyers well over a month ago before this posting, inquire if I knew anything about the new .470 Zeus? I told them I’m sure Alex will make some kind of announcement soon, I mean why not? Well it’s been sometime now, and no one has said a word.

Perhaps in bad taste, however not intended to be, as what I said WAS 100% TRUE. YES I TOUCHED AND PLAYED THE MIGHTY .470 ZUPER ZEUS.... Like I said I just happened to be at the factory, picking up some horns, and I took in my personal Bb WT in a double case, as I had my flugel with me as well. My personal WT was wearing thin in spots, and I brought it in to be Re-Goldplated, and because of this I had all my mpcs. in the case.

While I was there in the back at the receiving, and shipping , I saw the Zeus’s being ready to ship. I asked if the new .470 was there and was told yes. It wasn’t even stenciled yet, or wiped down, and put in a plastic bag, so I asked if I could play it. I was told yes, I could play it as he was sure that I would be getting calls, as to how it compares to the WT, and this would answer any of my questions etc. When Zig came out with his 103 Coliseum, he invited me to come up and play it and see it, so there would be no confusion. Zig has known me for over 20 yrs now, and knows my concern in large bore trumpets. In the past I have called him many times, when a different .470 is introduced such as in the .470 Chicago Big Band. So I’m guessing, or assuming he figured it would save a phone call. Since then as I talked to him yesterday he also told me, that it’s not uncommon for anyone who’s visiting the factory on a tour for example, to try anyones horns as there comming through. Including my own. I know I have had emails from people saying that they tried my WT's at the factory during a tour, when it just happend my horn was being run in a production at that time.

So while, I perhaps made a mistake, by reporting on the Zuper Zeus, or whatever it’s called. The day I played it, it hadn’t yet been stenciled, so there was no name on it. However, I did play the horn, my findings are of my own opinion, as I reported, on the behalf of the ‘ Has Anyone Test Played The Super Zues? Thread, that I observed, I tried to be fair. As for a example when I said it was all brass no nickel, I meant that to be a way of visual description, not to be criticizing, that it had no nickel. I have never seen any photos of that horn, and assumed no one else had either on any site. Even to this day and moment I have NEVER seen a photo of any description, or any detailed word description of that trumpet EVER. I wrote down the serial number to authenticate my findings. And I’ve seen it once, that was enough for me. I have no interest in Alex's website, only I wished he would not list Wild Thing as a product he sells, which is another story...

My story is 100% true, and I would gladly take a polygraph test if asked on this matter...

I have always been truthful, and I not going to back out of this, as it’s not me making up any of this. Perhaps I should not have said anything to the group, as it’s in the past, and I can’t undo it, and I’m not going deny anything I have already posted or said. It’s a event that happened, I do apologize to Zig Kanstul, for anything that I have done or said that would put him in a bad light or make him look bad, as he was just there in shipping and receiving as I was at the time this occurred. Neither Zig or I knew I was going to post this a month later. Zig has always been a close, and personal friend of mine, through the years, and a most important person in my Flip Oakes Wild Thing Trumpet endeavor as well. I would not want to involve him in any way in a negative way.... AND I do apologize to him if I had.

I will also promise however not to ever contribute to any other post again, that doesn't concern me personally, or my product ever, even if I’m asked. Though I will continue to make announcements, concerning my own products.

This is my final statement regarding this matter.

I Remain,

Flip Oakes

Flip Oakes “Wild Thing Trumpets”
COME AND HEAR THE DIFFERENCE
http://www.flipoakes.com

"To read what Wild Thing owners say about their horns, click on this"
http://www.flipoakes.com/testimonials.htm

Flip Oakes
2559 Mottino Dr.
Oceanside, Ca. 92056
760-643-1501
760-643-1511 FAX

To Hear the Flip Oakes Wild Thing Trumpet go to
http://www.flipoakes.com/multimedia.htm

[dmb]

Judging by the original post by Flip Oakes, his haste in making it and his tone, I now have no doubt that the Super ZeuS is going to be one great horn. Can't wait to see it.


dmb
_________________
Dan Burton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWuX9zPJWyY
-----------------------------------------------
Olds

[trumpetteacher1]

Why is it that threads connected in some way to Alex seem to attract so many anonymous posters that seem to enjoy stirring up the negativity?

Flip and Charly actually played the horn, and took time out of their day to post some reasonably interesting information. Although they had somewhat different experiences, they obviously saw no reason to get into a battle. But the "bystanders" want to see blood. Why is that?

PACtrumpet - If Alex has indeed been banned, and you are posting his messages, then you acting as his proxy. I'm not sure that I would want to be in that position if I were you.

It also seems that you (by proxy) and Alex have called Flip a liar. It now appears that these charges are part of Alexs' rich fantasy world. Which begs the question. Some of you have read stories from Alex about being banned on the TH. What percentage of those stories are really true?

As for you Flip, don't be such a wimp. Surely you have taken shots from anonymous posters before. WIthout a doubt, you will again. Your input here is always interesting and worthwhile. Please consider the source, and reconsider your stance on this.

Jeff Smiley

[tom turner]

Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I've been living at my hunting club this week doing a vacation deer hunting.

Flip told me about this right after it happened, adding a lot more detail (including the once-used, now idle bell mandrel used to produce the "Super" horn's bell . . . but I won't tell either since he didn't).

At the time, Flip even read me the serial number of the one and only "Super" horn, knowing that this would indeed prove later that he'd played the first "Super" horn even before Alex saw it or played it.

Calling Flip a liar? Shame on him, he knows better! Like Clinton, bet Alex never inhaled either!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

[Ohanapecosh]

Jeff,

I was deleting my post when you posted your response (In fact, I've only read the first sentence of your post).

I started a post on TM that carried over to this thread. If you haven't noticed, posts seems to be fairly fluid between the two sites.

After receiving an email from Flip, I consider this matter closed and I too won't post here any longer.

Sorry that I came back.

Geo



[ This Message was edited by: Ohanapecosh on 2003-11-16 17:33 ]

[trumpetteacher1]

George,

How did you get involved in all of this? You said, "I certainly have had no intention of posting on TH but considering it was my post that originated questions of the Flips actions, I'll offer an explanation."

Which post was that, George? As far as I can see, you haven't posted on this thread, until now.

The sensitivity surrounding whether or not Flip should have posted, to me, borders on the incredible. He was offering an opinion, for goodness sake. I have had authors of other embouchure development methods offer their online opinion of my method. At best, I have received back-handed compliments. So what? Where's the fire?

Whether Flip does this now, or two months from now, what difference does it make? Players are still going to get the horn and form their own conclusions. Sheesh!

The sensitivity of anonymous posters who constantly constantly complain about being persecuted, to me, is also incredible. Without a single shred of doubt, I know that anonymity emboldens a poster to say things that they would never say if they had to stand by their words. Maybe the rest of the internet operates like this. However, the trumpet community is small, and doesn't need to play anonymous games, in my opinion.

Jeff Smiley

[trumpeterb]

There seems to be some confusion as to wether or not the "pictures" of the ZeuS superhorn actually existed on Alex's website. I can attest first hand that these pictures did exist. Alex posted them on a separte "off shoot" website from his actual website. He did send the web address to several people for a sneak peak of the new horn. I was one of the recepiants, and I did view these pictures several times. They very nicely displayed every aspect of the horn...from the valves, to the bell, to the serial number, to the slides, to anything else you wanted to see on the outside of the horn. I am not exactly sure if anyone actually played the horn at the factory or not, but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that these pictures do exist, and that they were available online for a short period of time, to anyone that had access to the web address. Incidently, I should be receiving the superhorn in a day or two to test it out for myself....I can't wait. I will make my judgement based on personal experience, and as soon as the horn is available for production and purchase, I will gladly post about my experience with the superhorn.

Andy

[ This Message was edited by: trumpeterb on 2003-11-16 20:21 ]

[smokinschilke]

Well, we all know that the Zeus "whatchamacallit" will never stand up to the Wild Thing. You see, Flip is a player and he designed the horn with Zig kanstul. Alex does not play the trumpet, so how could he understand what is a great playing horn or not? if you want a trumpet, then get a Wild Thing!! I am saving for one as we speak.......
Zeus will never achieve what Flip has established!!

[jamesfrmphilly]

i think trumpet players are just too temperamental.
_________________
1946 Martin Committee, Bach 5V

[dmb]

smokinschilke,

How do you know that Alex does not play trumpet? It would be kind of odd for someone to be a repair tech and have a wind instrument business for many years and not play trumpet. Alex used HIS Mt. Vernon as a model for HIS ZeuS trumpets.
How exactly do you know who Alex designed it with anyway? Are you also one of those who have played the new ZeuS at the factory?
I have a feeling many of the ZeuS bashers, maybe even you, will buying the new ZueS. Who would have thought that ZeuS trumpets would create such a scare amoung the established trumpet manufacturers and their spokesmen.
I, for one of the many satisfied ZeuS owners, am glad I didn't follow the road most traveled.

dmb








_________________
ZeuS Dealer
Anderson, IN (near Indianapolis)
dmjl1@insightbb.com
765-683-0193

[ This Message was edited by: dmb on 2003-11-16 20:56 ]