Has Anyone Test Played The Super Zues?

PatchesTheCat · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:58 pm Post subject:

You would think as long as the trumpetherald has been up, we would figure out a way to have a normal forum. Every innocent question turns into a senate hearing with this crowd.

Excellent Posts as always Flip. Even without Alex in this forum, he is still causing problems. At least he didn't start slandering people's gender.

But I digress.

Regards.

Downunder · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:30 pm Post subject:

Jeff,

I think a lot of people including yourself have missed one of the main points here. You said that authors of other embouchure methods have offered online opinions of yours. Fair enough, but did they get hold of your method from the printers and publish comments based on the first draft? That's what has happened here. Doesn't the person paying for a prototype (or the publishing of a first edition) have the right to get hold of it first? Do you think that Ford's executives get invited to drive the new model Chrysler off the production line?!

Even Tom Turner (who I have a lot of respect for even though we've never met) posted:

"At the time, Flip even read me the serial number of the one and only "Super" horn, knowing that this would indeed prove later that he'd played the first "Super" horn even before Alex saw it or played it".

As I said previously, very disappointing performances all round.

Stephen Williams
_________________
"Where words fail, music speaks" - Hans Christian Anderson

trumpetteacher1 · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:50 pm Post subject:

Stephen,

You said, "I think a lot of people including yourself have missed one of the main points here."

Here's what is being missed. Alex is THRILLED TO DEATH with all of this hubbub. Not only does he get a bunch of publicity for his horn (and it appears that positive or negative doesn't matter to him), he also gets to play the innocent victim! Nirvana times ten!

Your analogy about my book doesn't work here. Perhaps if someone had stolen it off my computer before it was done, and published excerpts, I would be upset. But this was a production model horn that was merely PLAYED on. Good grief. You'd think that Flip was releasing trade secrets or something.

You said, "Do you think that Ford's executives get invited to drive the new model Chrysler off the production line?" Obviously, Ford and Chrysler are not made by the same company!!! There are obvious extenuating circumstances here, relationships which we know little about that have been established over a long period of time. If Alex is unhappy with the actions of his manufacturer (he's not), he should find another manufacturer (he won't).

A few of you have asked how I would react if the roles were reversed, and Alex was the one who played Flip's horn. The answer is - and I don't care if anyone believes me or not - is that IT DOESN'T MATTER. In the big picture, IT DOESN'T MATTER. Somebody got to play somebody's horn before it was released to the public. Man, that's a hanging offense!

Now I'm hearing that Charly is getting flack for giving his early impressions as well - even though his review was mostly positive!

Alex wins again! Maybe that guy really is a genius.

Jeff Smiley

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetteacher1 on 2003-11-16 22:51 ]

Ohanapecosh · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Dec 2002 Posts: 2133

Jeff,

Sorry but I do need to post this on TH and I'll be posting on the other site too.

I was the first to post, questioning the ethics of Flip releasing information about a horn that had not gone public, on the other site. Like I said the information between the two sites are fairly seamless and shared freely and the controversy quickly flaired here. I hadn't understood the fluid nature of the sites until I made my "Flip comments".

I was under the impression when I made my post on TM that Flip knew the JupiteuR hadn't gone public. It wasn't a crime, but certainly appeared improper.

Flip and I shared some emails in order to clarify things. In all honesty, based on his understanding, he thought the horn had been released. I believe him when he says that "I had heard others were trying it out". That was a fact, others had tried the horn, although he didn't have the full details, the previewers of the JupitueR were hand selected customers and dealers of Alex.

In my mind, this entire thing was a misunderstanding of details and not enough information, not an underhanded post to subvert the debut of Alex's new horn. I see this as the end of the controversy, a simple misunderstanding with little drama in the end.

Flip was most gracious and fully understood how this looked from an observers point of view. He apologized and I know he was sincere.

There are few times that I'll defend Alex. I am tired of berating way he markets his horns too. He posts for controvery, has numbed and polarized many into fighting his little wars while he sits back enjoying each time the ZG name is mentioned. Yet, in the Flip situation, I'm sure Alex was shocked to find that Flip had indeed tried his horn. Quite possibly that is why he was indignant in his response finding that a major horn seller had touched his horn before he had. Just a thought.

Why the JupitueR, the ZueS is named after the Greek god, the Roman's called him Jupiter. So far the horn hasn't been officially named. I got tired of typing Zeuper Zues.

Sorry for the additional post, I'm out.......... back to my happy place. Just thought I needed to clear some things up.

Thevor (TM)
Geo

[ This Message was edited by: Ohanapecosh on 2003-11-16 23:57 ]

_swthiel · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:47 pm Post subject:

FWIW, I put the following up in the "other" forum.

Downunder · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:55 pm Post subject:

"I believe him when he says that "I had heard others were trying it out". That was a fact, others had tried the horn, although he didn't have the full details, the previewer of the JupitueR were hand selected customers and dealers of Alex."

1. There is only one of these trumpets in existence
2. If Flip played it BEFORE it left the factory, how had others tryed it out??
3. There have now been a few ZeuS dealers etc who have played it, but only after Alex got hold of it and sent it to them.

Stephen Williams

pair of kings · Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:18 pm Post subject:

i think i saw a dealer mention the name Olympus

Do really think Alex is upset by all this fuss. posts and copies of posts. the whole bit about creating this sense of anticipation of holding back pictures and specs while it's being reviewed by dealers and CR. Only one horn traveling to how many? and meanwhile the trial journey has been well publicized for the sheer purpose of creating discussion and hype. maybe flip screwed up the master marketing plan, however unintentionally. but look how much press the zeupless is getting. you bet he loves it.

Bits&Bytes · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 825

...and I used to think all that TV Soap Opera stuff was fake - what an idiot I was. WHOA... HEY... gotta go... I think I just saw a man leap a tall building in a single bound...

*blink*blink*poof...

regularsopguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 16 Oct 2003 Posts: 577

I don't think that this super Zeus is going to be a threat to the Wild Thing. A Wild Thing is not a Zeus is not a Kanstul. The only thing in common here is the manufacturer, who probably knows that people know he makes these horns anyway.

It was probably a prototype anyway, and might not have anything to do with the final product.