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casivake718
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Joined: 28 Dec 2016
Posts: 44
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 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:43 am Post subject: Recommended Orchestra Mouthpiece |
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| Can anybody recommend me some orchestra mouthpieces? Something that is recommended for a principal trumpet player in a high school wind orchestra. A deep cup that sounds great low and high range. The one I have currently is too deep and isn't really for orchestra playing but rather outdoor playing. |
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JohnBandMan
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Joined: 03 Oct 2015
Posts: 54
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Which mouthpiece do you use now?
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casivake718
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Joined: 28 Dec 2016
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I use a Carolina Crown mouthpiece. It's almost as deep as a Bach 1. It has a thin rim as well. Great tone in my opinion but from the way it feels, it's not something I would use for orchestra. It's real use is for marching band which I no longer do. |
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Steve A
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Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 1811
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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The most common orchestral mouthpieces in the past 50 years or so have largely been one of a Bach 1C, 1B, 1.25 C, or 1.5C, with a 24ish throat and a 24 backbore, or another company's version of the same. This is probably less true today than it has been in the past, but, in any event, for a high school student, probably the most appropriate mouthpiece is the one that your private teacher thinks is a good fit for you, or, failing that, something fairly middle of the road that lets you play everything you have to do with reasonable sound, endurance, and consistency.
Whatever mouthpiece you choose, unless it's a huge misfit for you, you'll still be >95% of the equation. A mouthpiece won't make you anything you're not already, either good or bad. |
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casivake718
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Joined: 28 Dec 2016
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I should probably ask my private teacher for recommendations on orchestra mouthpieces. Thank you for some mouthpieces I should buy though. |
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trumpet_cop
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Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| casivake718 wrote: | | I use a Carolina Crown mouthpiece. It's almost as deep as a Bach 1. It has a thin rim as well. Great tone in my opinion but from the way it feels, it's not something I would use for orchestra. It's real use is for marching band which I no longer do. |
uhhh... what?!
So, the mouthpiece you need to project and produce a large sound on the field is no good for projecting and producing a large sound in a concert hall?!... I'm sorry, that doesn't compute. What REALLY doesn't add up is that Mouthpiece express (the only place I could find these for sale) says the Crown mouthpiece is a traditional 3C, which is nowhere near the same depth as a Bach 1 old style or new.
This should have been a conversation with your teacher long before coming here to get suggestions, but for playing in wind orchestra (more commonly called Band) a normal 3C up to 1C is fine. Funny enough, those are fine for symphony orchestra as well. Rumor is the 2nd player in New York Philharmonic used a stock 1-1/2C until someone requested he switch. |
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trumpetman.rob
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Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpet_cop wrote: | | Rumor is the 2nd player in New York Philharmonic used a stock 1-1/2C until someone requested he switch. |
If it was working well, why would someone request he switch? Perhaps he wasn't getting a big enough sound/enough volume with a stock piece?
I know Tom Hooten played a stock Yamaha 17B4 for a good while before switching to a more open piece. Also, Jeff Curnow plays a Warburton with a 27 hole. I've heard that Mr. Vosburgh in Pittsburg uses a stock 1C.
To the O.P., get yourself a good 1C, 1.25C, or 1.5C and play it until the plating wears off. |
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| casivake718 wrote: | | I should probably ask my private teacher for recommendations on orchestra mouthpieces. Thank you for some mouthpieces I should buy though. |
Yes! Always ask your teacher, but also try-out as many things as you can. Becoming as familiar and 'dialed-in' to the nuances of your physical approach to the instrument, and both the sensitivities and preferences for this all-important first interface you have with the instrument can only lead to a more aware and proactive development.
If you were playing a huge mouthpiece in marching band, but no longer have such regular, physically-taxing playing on your plate, there are a serious number of variables you should consider when choosing an orchestral mouthpiece. First and foremost - what kind of group, how big a hall, what kind of repertoire, and which parts will you typically play? Then, are you playing on Bb/C, Piston/Rotary, switching lots, etc.?
My progression was 5C-3C-1 1/4C-1B, Monette B/C1-2, Monette B/C1-1, Prana 1-1S1, etcetcetc.
Things with larger mouthpieces (or all mouthpieces!) can be very personal. Again, as this is your fundamental interface with the instrument, the 'advantages' of a specific rim contour, cup depth, and backbore/throat/balance aspects that allow you to most easily create the sound you want within the context you most often play this repertoire is the one you want to go for.
I think it's far easier for a section to play Strad Cs with 229 bells and 25H pipes towards a specific sound-goal (and we all know that this is by NO means a workable approach!) than to get most people trying to sound like Phil Smith to do so with his famously dialed-in mix of non-stock throat, backbore, rim and underpart - we simply have too many differences in our initial sound production stemming from individual characteristics of the oral cavity.
If there's something that really works with the mpc you've been playing in marching band, keep with that same piece. If it requires a bit too much physical effort and can't reliably bring you the dynamic range, nuance of articulations, and yes, accuracy, try something with a similar rim contour in perhaps a somewhat narrower diameter. Along with this, the relative perceived 'thickness' 'roundness' 'flatness' 'sharpness' etcetcetc. will vary within each number and cup series for most Bach, and then to a great deal between manufacturers.
A number of excellent newer-to-the-scene custom manufacturers have succeeded in simplifying the selection process by offering a consistent rim contour across a number of different diameter options - that's a good way to work once you've dialed-in what you need to take you to where you want to go.
This is the (in)famous trumpeter's "Mouthpiece Safari" so, I wish you luck, humility, and decisiveness in what I hope is a short journey. I sincerely hope some of the considerations listed above may help you to focus some of how you want to go about achieving the most satisfying music you can.
Best regards!
-DB
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I play:
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Winghorn
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
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Location: Olympia, Washington
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Michael Sachs (Principal trumpet, Cleveland Orchestra) plays a stock Bach 1 1/2C on his Bb trumpet. He has a web site where he lists his equipment choices. By the way, I was the one that originally found the Mt. Vernon Bach Bb trumpet he plays today.
I think the last thing a high school player needs to do is go on a mouthpiece safari. A standard Bach 1 1/2C or 3C is good, safe choice and these mouthpieces have stood the test of time and are still widely used by amateurs and professionals alike.
I am sure other posters will chime in with their own favorite mouthpieces, some mainstream and others possibly loopy. For example, a poster on another thread recommended a Jet-Tone Maynard Ferguson mouthpiece for a beginner!
I would therefore take any recommendations on this thread, including my own, with a grain of salt.
Steve |
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casivake718
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Joined: 28 Dec 2016
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Winghorn wrote: | | A standard Bach 1 1/2C or 3C is good, safe choice and these mouthpieces have stood the test of time and are still widely used by amateurs and professionals alike. |
A 3c was the first mouthpiece I used for the first couple of months when I first started but I and some others thought it gave me a bright tone and it still does. I think I should ask a friend to try their 1 1/2 or 1 1/4 or 5c and see which I prefer. Thank you all for your suggestions. |
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trumpet_cop
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Joined: 18 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpetman.rob wrote: | | trumpet_cop wrote: | | Rumor is the 2nd player in New York Philharmonic used a stock 1-1/2C until someone requested he switch. |
If it was working well, why would someone request he switch? Perhaps he wasn't getting a big enough sound/enough volume with a stock piece?
I know Tom Hooten played a stock Yamaha 17B4 for a good while before switching to a more open piece. Also, Jeff Curnow plays a Warburton with a 27 hole. I've heard that Mr. Vosburgh in Pittsburg uses a stock 1C.
To the O.P., get yourself a good 1C, 1.25C, or 1.5C and play it until the plating wears off. |
My guess would be that if Phil Smith asks you to change something, then the questions end there. But again, that's my guessing and rumors that I had heard.
My biggest question to casivake718 is still where he says the Carolina Crown trumpet piece is more like a Bach 1 than the "A Traditional 3C Size Mouthpiece that provides a consistant tone throughout the Trumpet range and provides a strong foundation for many stylistic choices" taken from Mouthpiece Express and Crown Store website. If you used a 3C... then went to a fancy engraved one.. where are you getting the information that it is the same depth as a no letter Bach 1?
Mouthpieces are all very subjective and personal. Try to find what feels best and sounds best for you no matter what the numbers and letters say. |
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casivake718
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Joined: 28 Dec 2016
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpet_cop wrote: | | trumpetman.rob wrote: | | trumpet_cop wrote: | | Rumor is the 2nd player in New York Philharmonic used a stock 1-1/2C until someone requested he switch. |
If it was working well, why would someone request he switch? Perhaps he wasn't getting a big enough sound/enough volume with a stock piece?
I know Tom Hooten played a stock Yamaha 17B4 for a good while before switching to a more open piece. Also, Jeff Curnow plays a Warburton with a 27 hole. I've heard that Mr. Vosburgh in Pittsburg uses a stock 1C.
To the O.P., get yourself a good 1C, 1.25C, or 1.5C and play it until the plating wears off. |
If you used a 3C... then went to a fancy engraved one.. where are you getting the information that it is the same depth as a no letter Bach 1? |
When I got the mouthpiece the first thing I noticed was that it was not the traditional 3c size. My friends and I tried to see how deep it was and the closest size we found was a bach 1. The bach 1 was slightly deeper than the crown 3c. |
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HornnOOb
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Location: East of the Sun & West of the Moon
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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I am very happy with my Denis Wick Heavy Top 1C. Reasonably priced and provides a rich, full tone from lower to upper register.
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Severinsen Destino 3*
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Don't overlook the Schilke Custom Symphony series. What is used by the symphony greats may not be the best for you. I've got one and it works for me very well.
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cheiden
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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I'd recommend the Bach 1.5C. That should be more than adequate.
If you have money burning a hole in your pocket then you could try the Schilke Symphony M3 which comes stock with a Schmitt backbore. It allows you to play WAY bigger when you need to. If you do I would encourage you to order it cut for sleeves (Mouthpiece Express offers this). The stock piece wobbled in my Bach and after trying a number of sleeves it played much better.
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Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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zaferis
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Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | I'd recommend the Bach 1.5C. That should be more than adequate.
If you have money burning a hole in your pocket then you could try the Schilke Symphony M3 which comes stock with a Schmitt backbore. It allows you to play WAY bigger when you need to. If you do I would encourage you to order it cut for sleeves (Mouthpiece Express offers this). The stock piece wobbled in my Bach and after trying a number of sleeves it played much better. |
+1, a safe bet.. and I think I'd put the Carolina in a drawer and forget about it.
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jaysonr
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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+1 to getting a 1.5C and not looking back, around, up, or down. Just play!
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