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gtownlead
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Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Portland, ME
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 Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:21 pm Post subject: Yamaha Bells |
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Does anyone know if there are differences in the bell shape on the various iterations of the Xeno? ML vs L bore, reversed vs standard leadpipe.
Thanks! |
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:10 am Post subject: |
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There are quite a few different horns that are/have been sold under the Xeno branding. Beyond the clear "yes" that derives from that reality, if you are actually asking about a specific model, then that information may be hard to come by. There is a difference between the first and later generation Chicago C models for instance - but in many cases, such a tweak will not be public information.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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gtownlead
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Joined: 26 Jul 2003
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Location: Portland, ME
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| Specifically what I was wondering, if similar to Bach, they had different bell shapes on the various current models. Ie: does the 8345 Large Bore have a different bell than the ML bore 8335, similar to the 25L/37ML that Bach uses. |
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OldSchoolEuph
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| gtownlead wrote: | | Specifically what I was wondering, if similar to Bach, they had different bell shapes on the various current models. Ie: does the 8345 Large Bore have a different bell than the ML bore 8335, similar to the 25L/37ML that Bach uses. |
In a word: No. They both use a YL-3 bell today, and were YL-II bells in prior iterations just like the 6335 & 6345.
Within the 8 & 9 series horns, the VS, EM, LA, CH & NY horns then all have modified bells, still rooted in the 37 taper of the YL series. The Z horns (6310, 8310) use a completely different bell that traces its roots to the early designs for Yamaha done by Schilke. Tonal concepts, not bore size, drive variation in Yamaha bells.
Bach may commonly use a 25 with a .462 bore today, which one may argue it was designed for as it is the synthesis of the 7 & 10 bells that predate Bach's .459 bore. The 37 however was originally designed to match the .453 bore and then was adapted to the .459 bore when Bach developed that as a way to capture the stability and projection of the proportion of air to brass mass in the .453 bore horns while preserving the tonal color of the geometry of a .462 bore horn (.459 is a .462 with a thicker tube wall, the outside dimensions of the tubes match).
When Bach would use a bell with a bore size it was not originally developed for in the early days, he would sometimes make notes in the shop cards as to how to tweak the bell stem to prevent any issues. As the .003" difference is so small, Yamaha would not have to make such adjustments, but might be doing so. Much like the changes between generations, I would not expect them to share that info.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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gtownlead
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Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Portland, ME
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you! That was exactly the info I was looking for, and more! |
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mr oakmount
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Joined: 10 Jun 2022
Posts: 150
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, OldSchoolEuph.
I never really new anything about Yamaha bells.
Funny really, since we are all such "experts" about all things 43, 37 and 72  |
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OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:45 am Post subject: |
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There is a chart in A Timeline of Trumpets that outlines the evolution of Yamaha designs showing the roots of Bach and Schilke at Holton and then how their design concepts shape Yamaha models and cross-pollenate into the modern lines. (Page 279 in 1st edition, page 304 in 2nd edition)
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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StephenVannevel
Regular Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2016
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 8:24 am Post subject: |
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The 8335 and 9335 all use the YL3 bell, in the style of a 37, that is correct. However, the 8345 has the YR bell, which is in the style of a 43 bell (my preference). The EM, the LA, and the Z all share the same "A" taper with slight modifications to each.
Check Page 27:
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/brochure/4/1593144/W215R17_trumpets.pdf
Hope that helps!
_________________
Stephen Vannevel
YTR-9335CHSII
YTR-9445CHSII
Kanstul CCT 923 E♭/D Trumpet (MC1 Leadpipe)
YTR-9825
Yamaha and Frost Mouthpieces |
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