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dstpt
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
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 Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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I get what you're saying, LittleRusty. Makes sense to me,...
Last edited by dstpt on Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony Scodwell
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Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1961
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: Lous trumpets |
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Lotus were very close to me at ITG and in a (sort of) free moment when relatively quiet, I wandered over to blow on them. I played three horns that the fellow who was there manning the booth (sorry, I don't know who he was) and my impressions on all of them were similar. I kept pulling the tuning slide out and didn't seem able to find a center that was comfortable for me and maybe it's because I play my own horns which are fairly free blowing, they seemed on the tight side. Now Adam is such a fantastic player and certainly can play these horns, the weight and different configuration of them is a learning curve for someone coming from more standard trumpets. I never asked the cost but some posts alluded to them all at $5K. Zig Kanstul said it best. "Don't be hard on Monette, he's raised the price of trumpets for all of us". Adam can now join that club I suppose.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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alonshofar
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Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 185
Location: Mérida, Yucatán, Mex
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anrapa
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 357
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Nope, that's an AR Resonance trumpet with an AR Resonance mouthpiece. It's my screw on system with variable gap, one piece leadpipe and all the rest.
Lotus horns exist since the ITG, one week.
My horns are in the wild for quite some time now, as my mouthpieces.
Enjoy the video!
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AR Resonance Trumpets and Mouthpieces
Trumpets and mouthpieces: the ones I make |
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trumpethead
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 444
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Lous trumpets |
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| Tony Scodwell wrote: | Lotus ...I never asked the cost but some posts alluded to them all at $5K.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Yikes!
He said on the video that they'd be affordable.
At THAT price.., to whom I wonder? |
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Locutus2k
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 635
Location: Rome, Italy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:20 am Post subject: Re: Lous trumpets |
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| trumpethead wrote: | | Tony Scodwell wrote: | Lotus ...I never asked the cost but some posts alluded to them all at $5K.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Yikes!
He said on the video that they'd be affordable.
At THAT price.., to whom I wonder? |
...
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Last edited by Locutus2k on Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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desmo
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 195
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Lous trumpets |
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| trumpethead wrote: | | Tony Scodwell wrote: | Lotus ...I never asked the cost but some posts alluded to them all at $5K.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Yikes!
He said on the video that they'd be affordable.
At THAT price.., to whom I wonder? |
for the people that are thinking to buy Monette ... half the price ... it's a bargain  |
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tpter1
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Lous trumpets |
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| trumpethead wrote: | | Tony Scodwell wrote: | Lotus ...I never asked the cost but some posts alluded to them all at $5K.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Yikes!
He said on the video that they'd be affordable.
At THAT price.., to whom I wonder? |
Yamaha Chicago II C trumpet: $4,600 (Woodwind & Brasswind)
Bach Chicago Bb: $3,519-$3,649 (Thompson)
Adams A4 Bb: $3,310
Eclipse Trumpets: Call for price (Last I checked were around the $5,000 mark)
Wild Thing: $3,250-$3,850
Taylor: $4,500-$5,200
Edwards: $3,000-$3,950
He's right smack in the heat with everyone else as far as price point goes.
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"Character is the backbone of human culture, and music is the flowering of human character". -Confucious |
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desmo
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010
Posts: 195
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Lous trumpets |
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| tpter1 wrote: | | trumpethead wrote: | | Tony Scodwell wrote: | Lotus ...I never asked the cost but some posts alluded to them all at $5K.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Yikes!
He said on the video that they'd be affordable.
At THAT price.., to whom I wonder? |
Yamaha Chicago II C trumpet: $4,600 (Woodwind & Brasswind)
Bach Chicago Bb: $3,519-$3,649 (Thompson)
Adams A4 Bb: $3,310
Eclipse Trumpets: Call for price (Last I checked were around the $5,000 mark)
Wild Thing: $3,250-$3,850
Taylor: $4,500-$5,200
Edwards: $3,000-$3,950
He's right smack in the heat with everyone else as far as price point goes. |
mmm ... I think that the price is in euro. So will be 5.000€> = 5.600$>
maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I understand |
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djpearlman
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Joined: 30 Aug 2002
Posts: 461
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: |
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[quote="anrapa"]Mmmmm...
www.arresonance.com
Anrapa -- Two questions:
1. Did you have a role in the design of Adam's Lotus trumpets?
2. Is there anywhere/any way to try the AR horns in the US?
Thanks.
_________________
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Santa Fe, NM
- Monette Cornette
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5NafoVeXrsRm-fOhKaIpnA |
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Tony Scodwell
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1961
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:08 am Post subject: Lotus price |
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Scodwell USA Standard "Las Vegas" model at $2795.00 was left off the list. And the few Monettes I've played worked better for me than the Lotus.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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TrentAustin
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Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 5485
Location: KC MO
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Lous trumpets |
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| tpter1 wrote: | | trumpethead wrote: | | Tony Scodwell wrote: | Lotus ...I never asked the cost but some posts alluded to them all at $5K.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Yikes!
He said on the video that they'd be affordable.
At THAT price.., to whom I wonder? |
Yamaha Chicago II C trumpet: $4,600 (Woodwind & Brasswind)
Bach Chicago Bb: $3,519-$3,649 (Thompson)
Adams A4 Bb: $3,310
Eclipse Trumpets: Call for price (Last I checked were around the $5,000 mark)
Wild Thing: $3,250-$3,850
Taylor: $4,500-$5,200
Edwards: $3,000-$3,950
He's right smack in the heat with everyone else as far as price point goes. |
I'm sure the horns are fine (I unfortunately was so busy at the show I couldn't get a chance to play much) but $5600 is not $3300... that's about 70% higher 
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Lous trumpets |
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| TrentAustin wrote: | | tpter1 wrote: | | trumpethead wrote: | | Tony Scodwell wrote: | Lotus ...I never asked the cost but some posts alluded to them all at $5K.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Yikes!
He said on the video that they'd be affordable.
At THAT price.., to whom I wonder? |
Yamaha Chicago II C trumpet: $4,600 (Woodwind & Brasswind)
Bach Chicago Bb: $3,519-$3,649 (Thompson)
Adams A4 Bb: $3,310
Eclipse Trumpets: Call for price (Last I checked were around the $5,000 mark)
Wild Thing: $3,250-$3,850
Taylor: $4,500-$5,200
Edwards: $3,000-$3,950
He's right smack in the heat with everyone else as far as price point goes. |
I'm sure the horns are fine (I unfortunately was so busy at the show I couldn't get a chance to play much) but $5600 is not $3300... that's about 70% higher |
I too was thinking they are at the top end, not "right smack in the heat." |
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anrapa
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 357
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:01 am Post subject: |
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[quote="djpearlman"] | anrapa wrote: | Mmmmm...
www.arresonance.com
Anrapa -- Two questions:
1. Did you have a role in the design of Adam's Lotus trumpets?
2. Is there anywhere/any way to try the AR horns in the US?
Thanks. |
1. Luckily not, I was busy designing and actually making my own stuff, and for quite some time now.
2. Sure, Chad McCollough in Chicago and hopefully Josh Landress in NYC (he just become a mouthpiece dealer at the end of the ITG, if sales will be good and there will be enough interest I will ask Josh to carry my horns)
3. Let's not mix my horns with the Taylor Lotus models, mine have bells in one piece, full Phosphor bronze or full Nickel, no wire on the rim, side seam (people in the business know how better and harder to make they are). I do have the super expensive MAW valve block and I have 6 different kinds and weights of trim kits (with or without stones), in Brass, Nickel or Bronze.
My leadpipe is in one piece, machined, but the receiver is not a separate piece, it really is integral, machined from the same solid bar of brass (or nickel and soon of bronze).
The receiver is threaded and I offer 20 different backbores each with 8 levels of gap, a feature that alone is worth A LOT because it allows the player to find the perfect amount of back pressure, slotting, harmonic spread, articulation and so on.
And this is for those who want to play one of my mouthpieces. Alternatively I offer 6 different threaded mouthpiece adapters, each with a different amount of gap. This way there's no chance one can feel the horn too stuffy or too tight.
I also offer the option of a Phosphor bronze tuning slide (which makes the horn ever snappier).
I have 4 styles and weights of leadpipes, ovate or round shape for both the bell and the tuning slide, depending on the model.
Two styles of valve block (a classical looking one for the Classica model), options for rings, CNC engravings (ah, most of the horn is made with CNC made parts, including the leadpipes and tubes, precise to 2.5/10.000th of an inch) and all the horns are extremely light: the heaviest is 50 grams more than a Bach, the lightest is 100 grams less than one of them.
The most important thing is, tough, that I offer a huge catalogue of mouthpieces and backbores, in different styles, weights and shapes.
You won't have to buy a Monette mouthpiece to make it work
I know those trumpets appear very similar to mine but technically speaking they couldn't be more different. Unfortunately my CNC machines don't make parts for Satellites or Submarines, they are used 100% of the time to make trumpet parts. I hope that's a good thing when you make trumpets.
Also, my horns have a brand, a model and a serial number engraved.
Adam has played AR Resonance horns and mouthpieces for at least 9 months all over the world, he has now decided to market Taylor made trumpets under the Lotus brand. Nothing against them, I've been a Taylor dealer for many years and Andy is a wonderful craftsman, one of the very best.
I opened my business 3 years ago, started with mouthpieces and last year with trumpets, some of the finest players use them (Scott Tinkler, Marquis Hill just to name a couple) and a lot more are about to be announced.
I wish both of them the best in the business, I just wanted to point out the technical differences (MANY) and that the horns and mouthpieces you see in all of the videos you guys linked are my stuff, with my brand on it. Please don't associate them with another brand.
I understand Rapacciuolo and Rapa sound extremely similar but we are two different persons, he is an incredible player, I am not for sure.
But I am a maker, and judging by the sales and how the ITG went, I am not the worst around.
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AR Resonance Trumpets and Mouthpieces
Trumpets and mouthpieces: the ones I make |
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dkwolfe
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Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 116
Location: North of the sweet tea line
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Good Afternoon;
The Lotus trumpets are not the same as the ArResonance horns. I played both of them at ITG last week, and they are both great horns, but they are also very different.
The Lotus run about 5000 Euros, and I can't remember the price on the ArResonace horns. The Ar's have a few unique things going for them, as they have an option to screw different back bores on different mouthpiece cups, and then screw them into the receiver of the horn. This in effect, gives you a integrated mouthpiece.
All of that said, I'd take the Lotus, they were just a lot of fun to play.
Fun stuff.
D
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Nullius in Verba. |
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dacman
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Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 199
Location: WA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Lous trumpets |
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| tpter1 wrote: | | trumpethead wrote: | | Tony Scodwell wrote: | Lotus ...I never asked the cost but some posts alluded to them all at $5K.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Yikes!
He said on the video that they'd be affordable.
At THAT price.., to whom I wonder? |
Yamaha Chicago II C trumpet: $4,600 (Woodwind & Brasswind)
Bach Chicago Bb: $3,519-$3,649 (Thompson)
Adams A4 Bb: $3,310
Eclipse Trumpets: Call for price (Last I checked were around the $5,000 mark)
Wild Thing: $3,250-$3,850
Taylor: $4,500-$5,200
Edwards: $3,000-$3,950
He's right smack in the heat with everyone else as far as price point goes. |
Eclipse trumpets have never been $5000. The current price is $3500 for most models, including the brand new Celeste model that was a big hit at this year's ITG conference.
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Braw Brass
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razeontherock
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone know if the MAW valves have anything in common with Wedgwood? |
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kingsuper20
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ThatDude
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Posts: 372
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I find it a bit annoying that the AR Resonance people have spent the whole thread saying that Adam Rapa's monette copy is a copy of his monette copy. Let's be clear; what the French besson design is to Bach's/yamaha/Schilke/etc, Monette is to Taylor/Edwards/Lotus and all these big, heavy models including AR. Monette is the influencer. This is fact regardless of what one might think about Monette.
It was the same ploy when Monette made a more traditionally shaped mouthpiece that resembled the old Olds, Conn mouthpieces.
Instead of a ploy to steal attention with speculation and unsubstantiated claims, why not start a thread on those trumpets instead and let them stand on their own? |
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ThatDude wrote: | I find it a bit annoying that the AR Resonance people have spent the whole thread saying that Adam Rapa's monette copy is a copy of his monette copy. Let's be clear; what the French besson design is to Bach's/yamaha/Schilke/etc, Monette is to Taylor/Edwards/Lotus and all these big, heavy models including AR. Monette is the influencer. This is fact regardless of what one might think about Monette.
It was the same ploy when Monette made a more traditionally shaped mouthpiece that resembled the old Olds, Conn mouthpieces.
Instead of a ploy to steal attention with speculation and unsubstantiated claims, why not start a thread on those trumpets instead and let them stand on their own? |
Hey - I hear you (I think), but I don't quite buy into the conspiracy theories. It's true that some of the optics of Dave's design innovations have been copied by many manufacturers, most notably Andy Taylor in the 90s...but, then again, he and others have taken their study/copy work as a jumping-off point. I think that Taylors now look more like Andy's own do than, say, those Courtois and Getzen models which hastily (in my opinion) attempted to add sheet bracing here, or a coaxial double-bell 'cause Dave made it look cool.
I think we all agree how they play, the sounds that inspire an audience, and the feel of musical options which inspire the player to be more musical is what it's all about.
I'm neither familiar with these very-new 'Lotus' horns, nor have I ever played any RESONANCE equipment, barring the Monette mouthpieces which share the same name. So, speaking of those - this new mouthpiece design of Dave's, for what it's worth, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Olds or Conn mouthpieces which had a vaguely-similar funnel-shape back in the day: As we also all know - it's what's on the inside that counts!
Being a Monette player, I do get my feathers ruffled a bit when I see stereotypical heavy, Art Deco-looking trumpets, only because I know that a good portion of those designs are aimed at players who think they're getting "Monette-lite" or "Monette-cheap(er)" or some-such. And, what they get may be an OK horn, may be a bad horn, may be the perfect horn for them, but is absolutely not a Monette.
In closing, I agree with you that this thread is about Lotus trumpets. Therefore, we eagerly await more firsthand reports from folks who played these instruments. Since Adam likes them so much, we know they work for one great trumpeter. AR Resonance horns work great for Scott Tinkler, so that's a cool endorsement, as well.
There are some concerns about proprietary issues left-and-right regarding these instruments, but the look of a horn, unlike that of a fashion sneaker (look up some recent Supreme Court decisions), can't be copyrighted - we're simply doing what we've been doing for a few millennia - buzzing into a cupped piece of metal with a hole in it, allowing a tube with a big hole on the other end to amplify said buzz.
Thanks to the great Tony Scodwell for giving us his two cents, and thanks to all manufacturers who are committed to forging their own path. I'm truly grateful that Dave's approach to design and craftsmanship has allowed me to most fully realize my musical voice - I wish the same to everyone reading these forums!
So...who's played a Lotus?
Unsolicited advice to anrapa - Please share some info on your truly fascinating designs in a new thread. I recall reading about your concerns with Monette's mouthpiece design name, however the vast majority of readers on this site won't have access to your equipment or your ideas without your help --- let's learn about these cool bells, leadpipe design innovations, and more!
Best to all, and happy practicing and happy designing!
-DB
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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