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SMrtn Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014 Posts: 367 Location: Spain
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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:13 pm Post subject: Consistency |
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I don't really dig on asking for advice on every little thing that can most times be sorted with continuing practice, but this particular issue, thing, whatever, is kind of interesting to me, and I'd like to read what others think about it. </longwindedintro>
So, I'm making what I consider, good progress. I'm able to blow scales, major and minor up to the key of F# with good consistency. Not great, but good. I'm even able to sound the G major on a good day, and I'm currently going through a couple of books, and the tune I'm reading right now is Autumn Leaves. But I'm annoyed with the lack of consistency in sound I'm experiencing. I still nerf a lot of notes, and sometimes it's so ridiculous it literally makes me laugh.
I've been learning the trumpet, a most fantastic instrument, for only a few months now, and I'm wondering if any of the more experienced guys still experience this consistent sound frustration? |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:38 am Post subject: |
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I played trumpet for 12 years in the 50s and 60s and after a 50 year break made a comeback last spring. I was 79 then, had a few age related issues, and in many ways it was like learning to play all over again. In my first 6 months my playing was very inconsistent and I was cracking more notes than I want to remember. I got a little advice, and in my case it was all about a weak air flow. I just wasn't filling the tank up with a big enough breath before playing.I don't make that mistake anymore and my playing is much more consistent now. And to be honest, I really don't remember the last time I cracked a note. I really can't say if that is your problem or not. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Without hearing exactly what you're describing it's hard to say for sure, but if you've only been at it a few months, what you're experiencing is probably pretty normal.
I have to mention though (yeah yeah I know, AGAIN), private lessons are an incredible help especially to a new player.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2627
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:23 am Post subject: Re: Consistency |
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SMrtn wrote: | the tune I'm reading right now is Autumn Leaves. |
Put up video of yourself playing Autumn Leaves, maybe from a 3/4 view so you're not killing the mic with your sound but also still be able to get a good view of your embouchure. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:43 am Post subject: Re: Consistency |
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SMrtn wrote: | I'm annoyed with the lack of consistency in sound I'm experiencing. I still nerf a lot of notes... and I'm wondering if any of the more experienced guys still experience this consistent sound frustration? |
Yup. That's why we practice consistently, to develop and maintain that equilibrium between air/tongue/embouchure/mouthpiece/trumpet, and to coordinate all that with working the valves and slides. If that balance and coordination is off, it can be difficult to play even simple tunes.
If you're nerfing notes, you should stop, rest a moment and try to correct (or at least improve) the spots where you missed. Take it as slow as necessary. If you just cruise through your playing while missing notes left and right, you're learning how to miss notes. A big part of making progress in your development will be to become more meticulous about finding problems and fixing them. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2669 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Yes.
That is why we put in time and effort to get sound and response going each and every playing day. What the brass chat with Chris Martin: he describes how he starts the day, complete with hints that not every day is the same.
In college, I asked the same question of a retired orchestral player... his response was that consistency came in his mid 30's. About 15 years after starting his professional career. Before that, he coped as best he could and did the best he could.
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8939 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Since you define your practice as primarily relating to scales, it makes me wonder if you're overlooking other critical skills. To be consistent on the horn there are many other facets that need to be developed and maintained.
Just as an FYI, here's the sort of routine I always needed to get and keep my chops.
1) Stamp warm-up (down to pedal C)
2) Stamp scales (high as I can go without straining)
3) Schlossberg exercises (1-3 depending)
4) Clarke technical study (one exercise each week, in all keys, with varying articulation)
5) Smith study
6) Etude (like Charlier or Goldmann)
7) Irons or Bai Lin (4-6 exercises) _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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SMrtn Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014 Posts: 367 Location: Spain
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all very much for the responses and encouragement. Really good.
It seems that my 'problem' - I use quotation marks to illustrate that it isn't a problem as such, and it isn't exclusive to me, which is very good news. I need to just keep honing my skills through practice.
Re the suggestions that people have made, they're food for thought. cheiden's suggestion of technical studies rings true for me. Yes, that type of exercise is clearly a hole in my current regime of scales and tunes only. Thank you for that.
Lessons are not something I don't see any value in, on the contrary, clearly they are of great value, as long as you have the right teacher. Skype is the only option for me, and a webcam I don't have. I guess I gotta make the effort and go get one. |
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SMrtn Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014 Posts: 367 Location: Spain
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Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of consistency, what's up with lips that are strong and flexible one day, then dry and leathery the next for no apparent reason? A few glasses of water while practicing fixes it up nice, but it's just strange behaviour from one's own face. |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6133 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Consistency |
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SMrtn wrote: | I don't really dig on asking for advice on every little thing that can most times be sorted with continuing practice, but this particular issue, thing, whatever, is kind of interesting to me, and I'd like to read what others think about it. </longwindedintro>
So, I'm making what I consider, good progress. I'm able to blow scales, major and minor up to the key of F# with good consistency. Not great, but good. I'm even able to sound the G major on a good day, and I'm currently going through a couple of books, and the tune I'm reading right now is Autumn Leaves. But I'm annoyed with the lack of consistency in sound I'm experiencing. I still nerf a lot of notes, and sometimes it's so ridiculous it literally makes me laugh.
I've been learning the trumpet, a most fantastic instrument, for only a few months now, and I'm wondering if any of the more experienced guys still experience this consistent sound frustration? |
Can you sing Autumn Leaves? If so, let the little man in your mind sing while you play.. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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KHH73 Regular Member
Joined: 05 Dec 2016 Posts: 22 Location: West Jordan, Utah
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | Since you define your practice as primarily relating to scales, it makes me wonder if you're overlooking other critical skills. To be consistent on the horn there are many other facets that need to be developed and maintained.
Just as an FYI, here's the sort of routine I always needed to get and keep my chops.
1) Stamp warm-up (down to pedal C)
2) Stamp scales (high as I can go without straining)
3) Schlossberg exercises (1-3 depending)
4) Clarke technical study (one exercise each week, in all keys, with varying articulation)
5) Smith study
6) Etude (like Charlier or Goldmann)
7) Irons or Bai Lin (4-6 exercises) |
I think this response is RIGHT on the money. In my own playing, my greatest strides have come only after establishing a daily routine that covers all aspects of playing; tone production, flexibility, articulation, etc. In my mind the point of such a routine is that the "simple stuff" becomes automatic which then allows you to concentrate on just making music.
A fantastic book that I use for my routine is A Comprehensive Practice Routine for the aspiring brass player by Don E. Johnson. This book has been like magic for me. _________________ Kevin Hilman |
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scottfsmith Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2015 Posts: 475 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:04 am Post subject: |
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I'm about two years "older" than you in trumpet playing. I was about where you were in Autumn Leaves two years ago. All I did was add several hundred hours of practice and now I can read through most pieces and don't duff notes very often at all.
I didn't do many scales, I just played Autumn Leaves and a few other pieces many hundreds of times until I got them right. I am only recently starting into a practice routine with a warm-up and scales exercises etc in order to take my playing to the next level. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2627
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Consistency |
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SMrtn wrote: | I'm wondering if any of the more experienced guys still experience this consistent sound frustration? |
That's going to be an issue as long as you play trumpet. You're constantly walking a physics tightrope. It's rumored that even Maurice Andre chipped a note once, though no one can offer solid corroboration of this. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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And there is also this: I saw a quote recently by Arturo Sandoval, when asked if he always sounds great: "I always try but, not always, because the horn is mercy-less, unpredictable and traitorous."
We all need to avoid making excuses and certainly not blame the horn for less than satisfactory playing, but the truth is (I just TODAY had this conversation with one of my students), some days it just does not happen, even when there's been no lapse in practice or other apparent reason.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Last edited by Brad361 on Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SMrtn Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014 Posts: 367 Location: Spain
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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scottfsmith wrote: | I'm about two years "older" than you in trumpet playing. I was about where you were in Autumn Leaves two years ago. All I did was add several hundred hours of practice and now I can read through most pieces and don't duff notes very often at all.
I didn't do many scales, I just played Autumn Leaves and a few other pieces many hundreds of times until I got them right. I am only recently starting into a practice routine with a warm-up and scales exercises etc in order to take my playing to the next level. |
I know how difficult that must have been. I mean, Autumn Leaves isn't a walk in the park at all. I'm almost there myself. |
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SMrtn Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014 Posts: 367 Location: Spain
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Consistency |
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Robert P wrote: | SMrtn wrote: | I'm wondering if any of the more experienced guys still experience this consistent sound frustration? |
That's going to be an issue as long as you play trumpet. You're constantly walking a physics tightrope. It's rumored that even Maurice Andre chipped a note once, though no one can offer solid corroboration of this. |
It's heartening to read these responses. I honestly assumed it was just me. |
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SMrtn Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014 Posts: 367 Location: Spain
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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And....*drumroll*......I have found a teacher. First proper lesson in a few days time. She lives approx 40mins drive away. Thank you ball boys, linesmen. |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:50 am Post subject: |
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For those of you having trouble with Autumn Leaves, what key are you playing in ? I have an arrangement for trumpet in the key of G and find it one of the easiest old standards out there to play.
For me, one of the toughest songs I have come across is Come Back To Sorrento, also in the key of G. I am fairly consistent in most of the old standards I play but Sorrento still gives me trouble on occasion. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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rdotson102 Regular Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2016 Posts: 15 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:56 am Post subject: |
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As previously mentioned, having a daily setup routine is absolutely essential to developing consistency. Once you have a routine that you can play automatically, that covers all of the bases, it allows you to focus on what needs to get better in your playing. Our goal is to play music, which is hard to do if you have to actively think about fundamentals while you're playing. Although there are a lot of good ones out there, you can't go wrong with one of the simpler Bill Adam routines. I also use the Stamp exercises a lot, and they seriously opened up my sound when I was first introduced to them in college.
But about consistency, I've never met a player in my life who didn't have bad days. The difference is, on a bad day, a good pro player is at 90 - 95% (unless they're sick or hurt) which is good enough to cover pretty much anything they have to play. That's why it seems from the outside like they're always playing perfectly. They may know that things aren't working right, but they may be the only ones. When you're starting out, or playing part time with an inconsistent practice schedule, bad days can feel more like 60 - 70%, and your music might require 95%+ to be right. That's when it's rough. I've had many performances where I needed to be at my 100% to nail the part, which meant half of the performances were frustrating. That's why we practice and work at perfecting our technique, because when you're maxed out playing the notes on the page, it's not likely to be very musical, even when you hit every note. The more comfortable you are, the more focus you can put on making music. It's a lot more fun too. |
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SMrtn Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014 Posts: 367 Location: Spain
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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I've managed to get Autumn Leaves down and reasonably consistently. Thanks to some of the comments in this thread, I've accepted the fact that I'm not going to sound perfect all the time, though that is the horizon. My range is increasing the more time I spend with the horn.
Moving on to My Shining Hour. Plus the usual scale and tech exercises. |
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