Hi Bach Again
Thanks for this contribution. You have given us lots to work through. I am just on video1 but Prof Bill Fielder and the "violin bow" already inspiring. I found this article about the Prof. A Beautiful Tribute.
This has been a great thread and a great example of how TH can be a resource for aspiring trumpet players.
Thanks again and stay safe - Steve in Helsinki.
Edit:
PS Update: I have started today listening to violin music - it took "Prof" Fielder 1 and a half years to work it out so I have time.. _________________ My Number 1 supporter
http://langdons.com/images/langdon-image.jpg
Michael - do you mind me asking who the lesson was with?
Quote:
"A comment on chop strength (pertinent as it is to this thread) made to me in a lesson 6 years ago with one of my favourite trumpet players; the best lesson I have ever had"
Quote:
Wynton plays upstream, I have never heard of him talk about Stevens (an upstream method)
On a slightly different note, another interesting point about Wynton is that his mouthpiece placement is significantly higher now than it used to be.
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:15 am Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
bach_again wrote:
Some of the best players I know cannot free buzz. It is not an essential skill. Some players learn to play much too tense due to free buzzing, hence the anti-buzzing teachers. I believe it is right, for the right person. I don't think semantic arguments do any good. Personally, I tend to let the leadpipe form my embouchure, and any adjustments are all sound/timbre/tonally lead.
Free buzzing is useless unless you just want to be able to buzz for grins - everything you do when actually playing is different.
When you actually play, the mouthpiece shapes, tensions and aligns the buzzing tissue and gives the musculature something to work against in a way that can't be duplicated without the mouthpiece.
Play say a 2nd line G at a moderate volume - snatch away the mouthpiece while changing nothing and observe what's going on all around your embouchure - *that's* what's going on when you play. The area where the mouthpiece was is very loose, but it wasn't with the mouthpiece in place - the tension of the buzzing tissue is created by the mouthpiece trapping and deforming the small amount of tissue that becomes the reed against the teeth and holding a certain amount of the tissue over the edge of the teeth and in the path of the air and the surrounding musculature working against the mouthpiece. When you pull that mouthpiece away you won't continue buzzing a G, you won't be able to buzz at all. I submit that anyone who claims they free buzz the same way they play is lying just to be a contrarian. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:24 am Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
Robert P wrote:
bach_again wrote:
Some of the best players I know cannot free buzz. It is not an essential skill. Some players learn to play much too tense due to free buzzing, hence the anti-buzzing teachers. I believe it is right, for the right person. I don't think semantic arguments do any good. Personally, I tend to let the leadpipe form my embouchure, and any adjustments are all sound/timbre/tonally lead.
Free buzzing is useless unless you just want to be able to buzz for grins - everything you do when actually playing is different.
When you actually play, the mouthpiece shapes, tensions and aligns the buzzing tissue and gives the musculature something to work against in a way that can't be duplicated without the mouthpiece.
Play say a 2nd line G at a moderate volume - snatch away the mouthpiece while changing nothing and observe what's going on all around your embouchure - *that's* what's going on when you play. The area where the mouthpiece was is very loose, but it wasn't with the mouthpiece in place - the tension of the buzzing tissue is created by the mouthpiece trapping and deforming the small amount of tissue that becomes the reed against the teeth and holding a certain amount of the tissue over the edge of the teeth and in the path of the air and the surrounding musculature working against the mouthpiece. When you pull that mouthpiece away you won't continue buzzing a G, you won't be able to buzz at all. I submit that anyone who claims they free buzz the same way they play is lying just to be a contrarian.
Some folks buzz for the purpose of strengthening the muscles around the lips, I don't think anyone claims to play exactly.thst way though.
Personally, I don't like buzzing the way most people think of it because it tends to make the lip tissue that vibrates stiff or something to that effect the next day. But you can get around that to some extent by buzzing with the lips in a more rolled in or rolled out posture than you use when playing so the vibrating tissue you actually use to play doesn't get abused.
Whether it does much to make you a better player I really don't know. No one has ever done a controlled study or worked out when it works and when it doesn't etc.
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:39 am Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
Robert P wrote:
Free buzzing is useless unless you just want to be able to buzz for grins - everything you do when actually playing is different.
I disagree, and so would Reinhardt students for one, as buzzing can be a useful diagnostic and repair tool - one of many available to us - to help fix problems. It can be a useful isometric exercise as well. I didn't, nor does anyone I know suggest that they play how they free buzz. The assertion that you shouldn't free buzz because "this isn't what you do when you play" is fallacious, it is a strawman, because we know that this isn't how we play. By the same logic you could argue that you shouldn't mentally practice through passages with a metronome, or valve through things slowly that were otherwise tripping you, singing to connect the feeling of resonance and learning to control the soft palate, or working on breath expanding/control exercises or playing on the leadpipe... because that's not how you play.
Here's a buzzing exercise I do, takes about a minute or less, and it has been fantastic at keeping the wolf from the door when I have time off the horn. I would do this every other day if I was off sick or had weeks off due to dental work - I don't do this on playing days. I don't play the horn like this, but like the PETE or the CTS or the Pencil Exercise, this is a useful tool.
Trumpetingbynurture - the player was Percy Pursglove, a student of Laurie Frink. A truly kind and generous person, incredible trumpet player and double bassist. He plays in the NDR big band now.
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
bach_again wrote:
Robert P wrote:
Free buzzing is useless unless you just want to be able to buzz for grins - everything you do when actually playing is different.
I disagree, and so would Reinhardt students for one, as buzzing can be a useful diagnostic and repair tool - one of many available to us - to help fix problems. It can be a useful isometric exercise as well. I didn't, nor does anyone I know suggest that they play how they free buzz. The assertion that you shouldn't free buzz because "this isn't what you do when you play" is fallacious, it is a strawman, because we know that this isn't how we play. By the same logic you could argue that you shouldn't mentally practice through passages with a metronome, or valve through things slowly that were otherwise tripping you, singing to connect the feeling of resonance and learning to control the soft palate, or working on breath expanding/control exercises or playing on the leadpipe... because that's not how you play.
I don't have an Instagram account.
I'd be curious to hear you explain in specific, exact terms how free buzzing can be a useful diagnostic and repair tool given that it's completely dissimilar to what's going on when one plays.
There are good players who say they free buzz which is held up as evidence that free buzzing is useful and I'm sure they believe it themselves. I submit that *that* is a fallacy, that the two are unrelated phenomena.
By the same logic you could argue that you shouldn't mentally practice through passages with a metronome, or valve through things slowly that were otherwise tripping you
Not remotely related logic - valving through something is what you do when playing - you're training your brain to become more adept at the same motions that you go through when actually playing. A metronome is ingraining a rhythmic sense. While I question the usefulness of buzzing on a leadpipe, it's much closer to the setup of actually playing.
I free-buzzed a lot - I can still do it, but it didn't help the chronic issues I had one iota. Nada. Squat. Zero. What did ultimately help was becoming very tuned in to what actually happens when playing and in fact one of the things I realized is that it's far removed from what happens when free buzzing and why I concluded it's useless. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
I free-buzzed a lot - I can still do it, but it didn't help the chronic issues I had one iota. Nada. Squat. Zero. What did ultimately help was becoming very tuned in to what actually happens when playing and in fact one of the things I realized is that it's far removed from what happens when free buzzing and why I concluded it's useless
I have had the same experience with free buzzing as Robert P.
But it does not matter. Who believes in the usefulness of the free buzz will think that I do not do it correctly. _________________ Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies
Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4
Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
Robert P wrote:
...
I'd be curious to hear you explain in specific, exact terms how free buzzing can be a useful diagnostic and repair tool given that it's completely dissimilar to what's going on when one plays. ...
----------------
I think that most free-buzzing descriptions have the lips and general embouchure positioned very similar to regular playing. That would give a student or teacher a better view of what is actually being done - and to detect faults.
This would be especially true if a student was able to position a good 'static' embouchure, but then contorted it attempting to produce a mechanical buzz. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
Quote:
Trumpetingbynurture - the player was Percy Pursglove, a student of Laurie Frink. A truly kind and generous person, incredible trumpet player and double bassist. He plays in the NDR big band now
.
A great player indeed. I listed to a few other tracks on his channel and he can really get around the horn.
It's interesting that he is/was a Laurie Frink student. I always got the impression that there was an emphasis on strength there just because of the calisthenic exercises. But sounds like that might not be the case, and I have the wrong end of the stick.
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1808 Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
Robert P wrote:
There are good players who say they free buzz which is held up as evidence that free buzzing is useful and I'm sure they believe it themselves. I submit that *that* is a fallacy, that the two are unrelated phenomena.
...
I free-buzzed a lot - I can still do it, but it didn't help the chronic issues I had one iota. Nada. Squat. Zero. What did ultimately help was becoming very tuned in to what actually happens when playing and in fact one of the things I realized is that it's far removed from what happens when free buzzing and why I concluded it's useless.
It's just my opinion, but I think there are a lot of different playing problems someone can have, and that different people find success with different exercises, even in some cases when they have the same problem. You might not have benefited from free buzzing (or maybe it had already done everything it was going to do for you), but that doesn't mean no one does.
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
JayKosta wrote:
Robert P wrote:
...
I'd be curious to hear you explain in specific, exact terms how free buzzing can be a useful diagnostic and repair tool given that it's completely dissimilar to what's going on when one plays. ...
----------------
I think that most free-buzzing descriptions have the lips and general embouchure positioned very similar to regular playing. That would give a student or teacher a better view of what is actually being done - and to detect faults.
This would be especially true if a student was able to position a good 'static' embouchure, but then contorted it attempting to produce a mechanical buzz.
Not sure what you mean by "a good static embouchure".
When you're playing with the mouthpiece on your lips they're shaped differently than they are without the mouthpiece on them and the tissue that's trapped within the diameter of the rim and shaped the way it is with the mouthpiece applied is what creates the reed that creates the playing buzz - the way they're shaped with the mouthpiece applied can't be reproduced without the mouthpiece in place and any buzz you get without the mouthpiece isn't a reproduction of the playing buzz or playing formation.
Further I find the lower teeth push out a bit and the teeth are further apart when playing as opposed to buzzing.
It's not clear to me that anything done in any other way than with the mouthpiece on the lips and the specific physics of the horn in play would be useful. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
Steve A wrote:
It's just my opinion, but I think there are a lot of different playing problems someone can have, and that different people find success with different exercises, even in some cases when they have the same problem. You might not have benefited from free buzzing (or maybe it had already done everything it was going to do for you), but that doesn't mean no one does.
I’ve run across a lot of things in my trumpet life that I initially wrote off as useless or counterproductive that later turned out to be just the thing I needed. Sometimes you need medicine for a brief period of time; sometimes you need it for life; sometimes you never need it.
I lip buzz every day as part of my fundamental routine. If I leave it out of the routine for more than a day or so, problems start to creep in and the trumpet gets harder and harder. I’ve done it this way my entire professional life, so I expect to need this medicine for life.
Some of my students lip buzz their entire time with me; some for a brief period; some never. And the same goes for all sorts of other things. Trumpet don’t lie; it either works or it doesn’t.
To address the lip buzzing isn’t the same as the trumpet issue: of course it isn’t, and that seems pretty valuable to me. Every player, even those who make it look so easy, deal with inefficiencies in their playing. Being able to address those inefficiencies without the mental and musical baggage of the horn can be immensely useful in certain cases. Some problems are better dealt with without an instrument in our hands. I think Jacobs called it “introducing weirdness.”
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
JoseLindE4 wrote:
To address the lip buzzing isn’t the same as the trumpet issue: of course it isn’t, and that seems pretty valuable to me. Every player, even those who make it look so easy, deal with inefficiencies in their playing. Being able to address those inefficiencies without the mental and musical baggage of the horn can be immensely useful in certain cases. Some problems are better dealt with without an instrument in our hands. I think Jacobs called it “introducing weirdness.”
Being able to address those inefficiencies without the mental and musical baggage of the horn can be immensely useful in certain cases.
I don't know about the "mental and musical baggage of the horn". *Why* is it useful given that it's without the response of the horn or any mechanical similarity to what happens when playing? The lips aren't configured the same way - without the mouthpiece in place the reed you actually play with doesn't exist and the air isn't being directed through the same limited portion of the lips and the engagement of the facial muscles is totally dissimilar, the necessary pressure balance of the mouthpiece isn't there, the back-pressure isn't there, the acoustic properties and partials of the horn aren't there, the teeth aren't aligned the same way or with the same spacing, the tongue and throat aren't in the same position. The entire system that exists with the horn in place isn't there, you don't have the feedback loop of adjusting the sensations to the desired sound - you're not training *anything* in a way that resembles what happens when playing so in what specific way is it useful?
What "mental and musical baggage" is there in working on attacks and long tones?
Some problems are better dealt with without an instrument in our hands.
What specific problem is better dealt with without a horn and specifically why? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 900 Location: Bay Area, California
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
JoseLindE4 wrote:
Steve A wrote:
It's just my opinion, but I think there are a lot of different playing problems someone can have, and that different people find success with different exercises, even in some cases when they have the same problem. You might not have benefited from free buzzing (or maybe it had already done everything it was going to do for you), but that doesn't mean no one does.
I’ve run across a lot of things in my trumpet life that I initially wrote off as useless or counterproductive that later turned out to be just the thing I needed. Sometimes you need medicine for a brief period of time; sometimes you need it for life; sometimes you never need it.
I lip buzz every day as part of my fundamental routine. If I leave it out of the routine for more than a day or so, problems start to creep in and the trumpet gets harder and harder. I’ve done it this way my entire professional life, so I expect to need this medicine for life.
Some of my students lip buzz their entire time with me; some for a brief period; some never. And the same goes for all sorts of other things. Trumpet don’t lie; it either works or it doesn’t.
To address the lip buzzing isn’t the same as the trumpet issue: of course it isn’t, and that seems pretty valuable to me. Every player, even those who make it look so easy, deal with inefficiencies in their playing. Being able to address those inefficiencies without the mental and musical baggage of the horn can be immensely useful in certain cases. Some problems are better dealt with without an instrument in our hands. I think Jacobs called it “introducing weirdness.”
Charles Dickens opened his book Hard Times with the teacher Gradgrind:
Quote:
Now, what I want is Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts
The recent contributions of this thread remind me of the theme in Hard Times - the different schools of learning - the pursuit of facts, logic and deduction demanded by Mr Gradgrind or the world of Imagination, fancy and magic as epitomized by the role of the Circus in the book. Today my mindset is one of "playing the trumpet like a violin" so no prizes for guessing which School I adhere to. But I leave the last note with:
Charles Dickens, Hard Times:
Quote:
The last trumpet ever to be sounded shall blow even algebra to wreck.
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
Robert P wrote:
The entire system that exists with the horn in place isn't there, you don't have the feedback loop of adjusting the sensations to the desired sound - you're not training *anything* in a way that resembles what happens when playing so in what specific way is it useful?
What specific problem is better dealt with without a horn and specifically why?
I get what you're saying, but I think you're being a little too idealistic here. Its value (if it has any) is remedial.
Removing the feedback system can be an important part of introducing new sensations. A lot of people have deeply-ingrained habits that kick in as soon as the mouthpiece hits their face. And if those habits are counter-productive, then the easiest way to introduce new possibilities is without the instrument.
It doesn't have to be buzzing, it could just having the student blowing air in a very relaxed manner, then adding components back in with minimal change.
Yes, in a perfect world, a student would, for example, hear a great sound, emulate it and all their problems would magically resolve.
But think about something like rehabilitiation. Many, many musicians develop injuries for example because of how they are using their hands, arms, shoulders, standing etc. Usually when you are fixing these issues, the first thing a teacher does is remove the instrument and re-establish the relationship from the ground up. Exaggeration is also often an important part of the process of creating new sensations. Buzzing might be a tool in both cases.
Honestly, every technical intervention regardless of instrument that I have witnessed or been told about involved taking the instrument away, finding a new feeling without the instrument, and then adding the instrument back in incrementally while retaining the new sensation.
To suggest one can magically solve a technical problem just by doing more work on attacks and longtones strikes me as a bit naive. If all problems could be solved that way, virtually no serious student would have any issues. Reality is that I would say that most serious students at college level do have some issue or another in spite years of technical exercises. Habits can be deeply ingrained, the 'sensation of playing' is too familiar and easy to fall back on.
I really don't think there is a clear cut answer on the value of buzzing. Indeed there are a lot of variables involved even with buzzing that can change how beneficial or not it might be. How high/low, how loud/soft, lip position (think Reinhardt buzzing vs Pops McLaughlin Buzzing vs spitbuzzing etc - totally different approaches), how long it is done for, whether the instrument is added during the buzzing or if it's away from the instrument etc.
Ultimately, no one has done any sort of well constructed experiment to prove the benefits or not, so all anyone can do is state a *philosophical* argument about its value or lack of value. So there is no real substance to the claim either way. It's a judgement call.
In which case, the outcome will be the result of the teacher's ability to prescribe, monitor and adjust the exercise to ensure the result is the one they are looking for.
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
Robert P wrote:
Not sure what you mean by "a good static embouchure".
...
-------------------------
A situation that I have in mind is that of a student who actually tries to buzz into the mouthpiece to play.
Example -
The teacher demonstrates (without mouthpiece) the standard lip and embouchure position (a 'good static embouchure') .
The student then successfully copies that position.
The teacher makes a buzz while keeping their embouchure in position.
The student tries to buzz, but distorts their embouchure
The teacher should be able to see the student's distortion and make corrections.
my opinion - the teacher should realize that it is not necessary for the student to produce a 'free buzz', only to hold the 'good static' embouchure in position and produce air flow through the resulting lip aperture. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
JayKosta wrote:
Robert P wrote:
Not sure what you mean by "a good static embouchure".
...
-------------------------
A situation that I have in mind is that of a student who actually tries to buzz into the mouthpiece to play.
Example -
The teacher demonstrates (without mouthpiece) the standard lip and embouchure position (a 'good static embouchure') .
The student then successfully copies that position.
The teacher makes a buzz while keeping their embouchure in position.
The student tries to buzz, but distorts their embouchure
The teacher should be able to see the student's distortion and make corrections.
my opinion - the teacher should realize that it is not necessary for the student to produce a 'free buzz', only to hold the 'good static' embouchure in position and produce air flow through the resulting lip aperture.
The way the lips are configured for playing *is* quite distorted from how they're configured when free-buzzing.
The student needs to learn to produce notes with the mouthpiece and horn. If a teacher is any good they'll know what to direct the student to be aware of to be in place for that to happen - lip overhang over the teeth, alignment of the lips to each other, the right amount of tension and teeth opening and moving plenty of air. They need to get used to placing the mouthpiece in the right spot and manner to be conducive to playing. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Example 1:
In grad school, I became of an unwanted extra noise in my repeated articulations. If I would tongue several notes in a row, there was a subtle sound that shouldn't be there. My professor observed that that extra noise was connected with a strange motion in my face. Telling me to not do that, or to be still, or anything else changed nothing. The motion was part of how I played. Taking that away meant that I couldn't play. I was told that it could take quite some time to fix.
That afternoon in the practice room, I realized exactly when and why the motion was occurring. I couldn't stop it when playing, but I knew the cause. I came up with a series of exercises, starting with the lips alone. I could play lips alone without the motion since it was far enough removed from the horn. I can buzz without concern for the result and just focus on whatever goal I've set out. I can experiment.
I then added the rim with a visualizer, then the mouthpiece, the leadpipe alone, and finally the horn. Within a week or so, I was able to transform my playing and do an end-around on my normal habits. Whenever I find myself getting too lippy with my articulations, a few minutes a day with these same simple drills bring me back.
All of the articulation practice in the world would have never solved my problem since the problem was deeply ingrained in my method of production. Telling someone to do something very different than their typical approach can sometimes seem (to them) as absurd as telling them to blow in the other end. It just doesn't work.
Example 2:
For most of my professional life, I've had a hard cap of around G above high C. In the past 5 years or so, through practice with the leadpipe (a la Javier Gonzales, playing between partials), and with a visualizer, I have discovered an extra octave and a half. Doing these strange things has given me space to explore and discover. Trumpet is easier through doing these things. These drills make me aware of a more efficient way of playing which I can then work to apply to the full horn.
Example 3:
I came into college with a very broken method of tone production. Once the heavy playing load of ensembles and practice hit, I started experiencing regular pain and developed a semi-permanent wound on the inside of my upper lip. It wasn't sustainable. Beginning with lip buzzing and slowly adding more parts (visualizer, mouthpiece, leadpipe, then horn) I was able to relearn a healthy approach to the horn. This approach has formed the core of my fundamental practice ever since. For several years prior, I knew that my approach was broken, but I had no way to fix it. It was only through beginning with the buzz that I was able to find solid ground in my playing. If buzzing was exactly like the horn, it wouldn't have worked.
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1808 Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Taking notes from Wynton's embouchure set: top lip ancho
JoseLindE4 wrote:
I’ve run across a lot of things in my trumpet life that I initially wrote off as useless or counterproductive that later turned out to be just the thing I needed. Sometimes you need medicine for a brief period of time; sometimes you need it for life; sometimes you never need it.
I think there's a lot of truth in this. Obviously some people get results they're very happy with by only drawing on one source, and that's great for them, but as my playing life has gone on, I've found helpful ideas from a wider and wider range of sources. (And I've known a number of other players who have been helped by branching out from what they learned in school to deal with injuries, or other playing problems.)
I find this site useful for a lot of things, and fun for some others, but I just can't wrap my head around why a handful of poster are determined to shout down any discussion about things their teachers didn't advocate, especially when there are lots of highly successful people who say it has helped them.
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