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pinstriper
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Joined: 25 Sep 2013
Posts: 340
Location: Portlandia, OR
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 Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| razeontherock wrote: | I sure hope cats like Trent and Landress don't read Pinstriper's post.
My "collection" was just an attempt to find 'the one.'. I'm pretty loyal to that axe, most of the time. Trying to sell off the others hasn't gone so well. |
Those are two very good examples in support of my post, actually. Neither has a business based exclusively on buying instruments as investments and holding until the right time to sell. They sell plenty of good ole retail of new product, services, and accessories. It's valve oil and gig bags that pays the bills. The augment their sales with vintage sales, but I would hazard to guess that they don't buy instruments intending on holding on to them until the market changes or an instrument appreciates. They make money by buying at the right price, so they can sell and still make a profit. You make the money based on the price you buy at, not what you sell at, because the only transaction you're in control of is the purchase.
So, as part of a diversified business model, and without doing anything stupid at the time of purchase, and making sure you can liquidate your inventory at a non-catastrophic loss if necessary...yeah you can make money at it.
But hey, feel free to build a business model around a strategy of "let's sink a bunch of money into a large inventory of high priced, low demand inventory".
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~'77 DEG Dynasty II Soprano Bugle in G
'13 Chinese POS "Hawk" branded Flugel
'59 Olds Ambassador Cornet
'51 Olds Super
'69 Olds Studio
'40 Olds Special Cornet, Military Issued |
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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While I agree with most of what you have posted, this is actually wrong.
| pinstriper wrote: | | You make the money based on the price you buy at, |
You make money on the margin you get paid over the purchase. As long as you sell for more than you paid, you make money. | pinstriper wrote: | | not what you sell at, because the only transaction you're in control of is the purchase. |
There is no more control as a buyer than a seller, unless you are referring to a decision to look for and purchase an instrument. But on the flip side the seller controls whether they want to sell.
Last edited by LittleRusty on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GordonH
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Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 2893
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| McH wrote: | | GordonH wrote: | With bank interest rates being 0.5% here I took £1000 of my savings and used it to buy a number of vintage instruments over the period of a year, that I was able to get at lower than normal prices for one reason or another. Not only do I have some fun things I know I would get more than £1050 back for them based on the going rate for them second hand. I think they would fetch about £1200 which is a 20% gain in a year.
It is just a bit of fun really, but justified by the low interest rates. |
Do you still have that lovely time capsule Blessing Artist Long Cornet? |
No, it had to go when I was thinning out my personal collection a year ago.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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GordonH
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Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 2893
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Basic point:
In 1988 I bought a yamaha trumpet for £700.
In 2002 I sold it for £750.
Obviously inflation meant my £750 was not worth as much as the original £700 but it did mean I had 14 years of good playing and still made a book profit on it.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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pinstriper
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Joined: 25 Sep 2013
Posts: 340
Location: Portlandia, OR
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | While I agree with most of what you have posted, this is actually wrong.
| pinstriper wrote: | | You make the money based on the price you buy at, |
You make money on the margin you get paid over the purchase. As long as you sell for more than you paid, you make money. | pinstriper wrote: | | not what you sell at, because the only transaction you're in control of is the purchase. |
There is no more control as a buyer than a seller, unless you are referring to a decision to look for and purchase an instrument. But on the flip side the seller controls whether they want to sell. |
You absolutely have the control on the purchase side. If the price isn't right, you walk and do something else with the money.
You can't compel a sale - except possibly, and certainly not always by dropping your sale price. But you do have control over the original purchase transaction.
_________________
~'77 DEG Dynasty II Soprano Bugle in G
'13 Chinese POS "Hawk" branded Flugel
'59 Olds Ambassador Cornet
'51 Olds Super
'69 Olds Studio
'40 Olds Special Cornet, Military Issued |
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| pinstriper wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | While I agree with most of what you have posted, this is actually wrong.
| pinstriper wrote: | | You make the money based on the price you buy at, |
You make money on the margin you get paid over the purchase. As long as you sell for more than you paid, you make money. | pinstriper wrote: | | not what you sell at, because the only transaction you're in control of is the purchase. |
There is no more control as a buyer than a seller, unless you are referring to a decision to look for and purchase an instrument. But on the flip side the seller controls whether they want to sell. |
You absolutely have the control on the purchase side. If the price isn't right, you walk and do something else with the money.
You can't compel a sale - except possibly, and certainly not always by dropping your sale price. But you do have control over the original purchase transaction. |
Huh? A seller can always walk away from a lowball offer too. Total control, just as in your purchase example. Compelling a sale isn't equivalent to deciding someone wants too much money. |
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razeontherock
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Joined: 05 Jun 2004
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Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Pinstriper's post at the top of the page where he's quoting me spells out the very point I'm making; to have a large inventory of really cool old horns is not what keeps the doors open for a business like Landress'. Cats like that do it out of passion, interest in working on classics to fill slow times, and pride of workmanship to bring them into showroom condition. It also brings visibility and boosts their image. I do hope shops like that continue out of passion! We've all seen the way that following a 'successful business model' (UMI, Steinway, etc) has lead to the decline of major US manufacturers, our economy, and arguably the interest of the younger generation in developing musical talent.
All that has in turn given rise to boutique shops and manufacturers. In these changing market conditions it would be speculation rather than investment to try to predict how values may or may not change. |
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:06 am Post subject: |
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There is a lot that future generations will miss out on due to the change in business models from brick and mortar to online stores. One is being able to try out all of the trumpet models before buying.
Back on topic, I think that if you can refurbish the instruments yourself, you can make money off the sweat equity you put into them. Probably not as much as other ways of investing however.
I know of two people who make money off of instruments. One has contacts in the community and gets early access to estate sales. This allows them to negotiate prices that allow a profit.
The other purchases storage lockers at action and sells to a local store he has a standing deal with. |
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scipioap
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Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 368
Location: Waltham, MA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | There is a lot that future generations will miss out on due to the change in business models from brick and mortar to online stores. One is being able to try out all of the trumpet models before buying. |
There’s a flipside to that that’s much more compelling - access to a wide array of vintage horns for sale that was never before possible. In 30 years of searching (granted within my small circle in New England), I never found one classic Martin (or even Olds, etc.) as used by my heroes, Miles, Chet, etc. Now in last 10 years, I’ve acquired 6 Committees, all cheaply from every decade and all over US w/o leaving my house!
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1963 Martin Committee #3
1962 Martin Committee Cornet #3
1961 Martin Custom Committee C
1941 Martin HC Committee #2
1945 Martin Committee #2
1942 Martin HC Committee Cornet
1941 Martin IBICO Indiana
2012 Kanstul 1525 SLB
1977 Olds CT Flugel |
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gjarrell
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 175
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:35 am Post subject: |
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I'm probably echoing someone else...I have around 30 trumpets, cornets, and a flugelhorn. I started out thinking of investing in vintage horns, but came to realize that they are poor investments with few exceptions. So, I changed my focus to horns I wanted to play like Harrelson, Lawler, Schilke, Sonare, Getzen, and Taylor. Some are vintage, Connn cornets and a 22B trumpet. The main problem is keeping each one in tip top shape. I realized I wanted to play them, not look at them. You'll have to decide what's imporant to you. Keep it fun.
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Glenn
"When you play, make a statement. Don't ask a question." - Prof. Fielder |
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