Joined: 05 Sep 2014 Posts: 17 Location: Southern California, USA
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:21 am Post subject: Flugelhorn Mouthpiece Recommendations
Hello,
Can you recommend some good Flugelhorn mouthpieces? I normally use a Bach 1-1/4C size with around a 23 throat. I just thought I'd use the same size for the flugelhorn (1-1/4C FL) and a friend of mine said that you need to use a smaller mouthpiece on a flugelhorn, like a 7C. I wasn't sure about the logic behind it. Maybe some of you guys can share your expertise?
Thanks! _________________ "It's not the hours you put in your work that counts, it's the work you put in the hours." - Sam Ewig
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2330 Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:14 am Post subject:
Same rim! Or as close as you can manage.
Curry, and make sure you get the appropriate shank size for your Flugel.
Curry 3 rims feel very similar in size to my Bach 1 1/2 C, bigger than a 3C. more comfy.
But I warn you if you try a Curry Flugel mouthpiece you will probably love it then want to get the same for all your other trumpets.. That's how I got to the point I am with all Curry 3's - best move I've made!
Cheers. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2415 Location: Maryland
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:19 am Post subject:
tjyune wrote:
I just thought I'd use the same size for the flugelhorn (1-1/4C FL) and a friend of mine said that you need to use a smaller mouthpiece on a flugelhorn, like a 7C.
I've not heard this before. But I'm sure there's a wide variety in the way people approach flugelhorn mouthpieces.
But as you suggested, a reasonable place to start would be with a similar-sized mouthpiece. The Bach 1.25FLC, Curry 1.25FL, or Yamaha 16F4 or 17F4 are all relatively inexpensive, and all have a similar rim to your Bach.
Not sure of your familiarity with flugelhorn mouthpiece shanks. So just in case, there are 3 main sizes. Bach mouthpieces come in the "small or Bach" sized shank. Yamaha mouthpieces come in the "large or Yamaha" sized shank. Curry mouthpieces come in all 3 sizes (small, large, French).
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:20 am Post subject:
I use a Curry 3C on trumpet and a Curry 3FLD on flugel. I love the FLD - it completely transformed my flugel from a "good" instrument to "the people's champ."
Here's a recording of me playing flugel on my Curry FLD:
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5680 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:52 am Post subject:
Turkle wrote:
I use a Curry 3C on trumpet and a Curry 3FLD on flugel. I love the FLD - it completely transformed my flugel from a "good" instrument to "the people's champ."
Nice playing and nice sound!
So - a question on that, because I'm in the market for a flugel mouthpiece. I've played this old Schilke 16F4 (something like that - not sure specifically without looking at it) that was given to me sometime around 1991 by a friend. It's a fairly big mouthpiece, but it's also very deep, and although I've always like the sound, I've never felt that I have good control of it.
My question - you are playing the deepest version of the Curry flugel piece. Just how deep is it, and do you feel like you've got good control of it, or do you have to work harder to get it to function correctly? I don't know if what I'm experiencing with the Schilke is due to the much larger diameter difference from my Warburton lead setup, or if it's due to the depth. To be fair, it's a substantial shift - my Warburton setup is more narrow than my legit trumpet setup, which is more narrow than my flugel piece.
I don't seem to have any major issues shifting between the three, but the Schilke flugel piece has always seemed big, but then, I want it to feel a bit bigger, but maybe not quite that big. I suppose I could split the difference by going with a Curry 2 flugel piece (.668) but that still doesn't help me with the depth.
Sorry for this ramble - I'm kind of just putting what's in my mind into the post. I suppose the best way to approach it might be to simply order a few, and pay the restocking fee for what I don't wind up keeping. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Flugelhorn Mouthpiece Recommendations
tjyune wrote:
a friend of mine said that you need to use a smaller mouthpiece on a flugelhorn, like a 7C. I wasn't sure about the logic behind it.
I've read that a few times on TH. IIRC, the logic is that the flugel mpc has so much more cup volume than a similar size tpt mpc that going with a smaller rimmed flugel piece might help with the transition because it has a bit less cup volume.
For me, using a different rim diameter would more of a distraction than the bigger cup volume. Besides, the cup volume's still going to be pretty big with a flugel piece, even with a smaller rim. So I use a flugel mpc with the exact same rim as my trumpet mpc.
I did start with a fairly deep flugel cup at first, then switched to something a bit shallower to get the sound I was after. This also makes it a bit easier to transition back/forth.
Turkle wrote:
Here's a recording of me playing flugel on my Curry FLD
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:36 am Post subject:
trickg wrote:
Turkle wrote:
I use a Curry 3C on trumpet and a Curry 3FLD on flugel. I love the FLD - it completely transformed my flugel from a "good" instrument to "the people's champ."
Nice playing and nice sound!
[snip]
My question - you are playing the deepest version of the Curry flugel piece. Just how deep is it, and do you feel like you've got good control of it, or do you have to work harder to get it to function correctly?
Thank you!
The FLD is definitely a deep funnel - it's visibly a cavern.
So before I switched to Curry, I was playing the Yamaha 14f4. Thin tone, bad intonation, and notes didn't "slot" on the horn at all.
I bought a Curry 3FL and liked it - it made the horn sound like a flugel and the intonation was substantially improved. Plus, I play the Curry 3 rim on my trumpets, so having the same rim makes switching a breeze. When I saw a Curry 3FLD on the TH Marketplace, I had to check it out.
All I can say is WOW. The tone - marvelous. The intonation - the best of any mouthpiece I've tried in the horn. The notes all slot right where I want them, effortlessly. Best part: even though it's the deepest cup by far, I have the best high register on the horn! It's weird but true. I have no trouble playing high Cs and up or holding a long high A in "Sentimental Mood."
I think that even though the FLD is the deepest I've played on the instrument, I have the best control over all registers of the instrument, and because it's the same rim as my trumpet mouthpiece, I have no trouble whatsoever switching back and forth. I've used it for over 2 years now and wouldn't even consider a different mouthpiece on the horn.
Hope this helps! Curry mouthpieces are relatively inexpensive and they tend to sell quickly in the marketplace (in my experience) so I'd strongly recommend checking one out in your preferred diameter. (They also make the Curry FLD in their "commercial" 600 series rims, which could be good for you.) _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2415 Location: Maryland
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:41 am Post subject:
trickg wrote:
My question - you are playing the deepest version of the Curry flugel piece. Just how deep is it, and do you feel like you've got good control of it, or do you have to work harder to get it to function correctly?
I own both the Curry 3FL and 3FLD. Send me an email, if you want to stop by to try them.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Joined: 05 Sep 2014 Posts: 17 Location: Southern California, USA
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:03 am Post subject:
Thank you for all the awesome replies!
So, I tried playing on the same size (1-1/4 C FL) and I think it plays well, except for the intonation on the upper register - like from G on the top of the staff and on is considerably flat. Is this a mouthpiece question or a horn question? I don't have this problem on any of my other horns. I have a Kanstul 1526 - 4 Valve Flugelhorn. _________________ "It's not the hours you put in your work that counts, it's the work you put in the hours." - Sam Ewig
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2415 Location: Maryland
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:19 am Post subject:
tjyune wrote:
So, I tried playing on the same size (1-1/4 C FL) and I think it plays well, except for the intonation on the upper register - like from G on the top of the staff and on is considerably flat. Is this a mouthpiece question or a horn question? I don't have this problem on any of my other horns. I have a Kanstul 1526 - 4 Valve Flugelhorn.
Flugelhorns can be a bit flat above the staff. It can take some time to learn to play in-tune above the staff. So it's not necessarily the mouthpiece or the horn. But it might be worth trying some other mouthpieces, to see what works best for you.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Joined: 05 Sep 2014 Posts: 17 Location: Southern California, USA
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:29 am Post subject:
Thank you for your comments and suggestions! I'll keep playing and try some other mouthpieces! It looks like I should go try Curry first. _________________ "It's not the hours you put in your work that counts, it's the work you put in the hours." - Sam Ewig
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5680 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:58 pm Post subject:
TrumpetMD wrote:
trickg wrote:
My question - you are playing the deepest version of the Curry flugel piece. Just how deep is it, and do you feel like you've got good control of it, or do you have to work harder to get it to function correctly?
I own both the Curry 3FL and 3FLD. Send me an email, if you want to stop by to try them.
Mike
Sent you an email - I'd definitely like to take you up on that! _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:16 pm Post subject:
At times I've used exactly the same rim on trumpet and flugelhorn (or as close as one can expect Bach or Wick mouthpieces to be) and at other times there's been variance. Currently I'm playing Reeves 43W rims on trumpet and an old Bach 3FL on flugelhorn.
The thing is, I have a Reeves 43WDF mouthpiece so I could play exactly the same rim on flugel (and the Reeves piece even has the correct shank for my Calicchio), but the Bach (with the "wrong" shank) simply works better. For me.
Before the Calicchio I had a Bach Strad flugel, on which I used a Wick 4FL (again, wrong shank for the horn but it worked fine for me).
My conclusion is that for the past 20 or so years I've been playing flugelhorn mouthpieces that at least felt, to me, similar in diameter to my trumpet mouthpieces, but that had a noticeably sharper bite.
I am happy to own an Wick RW4FL (RW stands for Roger Webster), which IMO is superior to the normal 4FL. The sound is as dark as the normal FL, but much more lively and it plays easier. It's my piece for solo work.
My standard flugel piece is the Bobby Shew or a Marcinkiewicz 7FLD.
For the Yamaha users: with my old 635T a Stork 3FLS was always the best working mouthpiece.
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Flugelhorn Mouthpiece Recommendations
tjyune wrote:
Hello,
Can you recommend some good Flugelhorn mouthpieces? I normally use a Bach 1-1/4C size with around a 23 throat. I just thought I'd use the same size for the flugelhorn (1-1/4C FL) and a friend of mine said that you need to use a smaller mouthpiece on a flugelhorn, like a 7C. I wasn't sure about the logic behind it. Maybe some of you guys can share your expertise?
Thanks!
There is no logic at all behind your friend's misinformed opinion. Get a Bach 1-1/4C Flügelhorn mouthpiece and I'm sure you'll be happy. It's best to play on the same rim size and shape.
I am adding this after reading your latest comment: To cure the intonation problem you are having with the Bach mouthpiece (if it is the mouthpiece that is to blame...) send that mouthpiece to Bob Reeves and have him cut the rim off it and match it as a screw rim setup with one of his Flügelhorn mouthpiece underparts (I use the F underpart for higher things and his very deep HF model for most Flügelhorn literature). The end result will be a very good Flügelhorn mouthpiece with a rim that is an exact match to your trumpet mouthpiece.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
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