Picc mouthpiece suggestion?

[acritzer]

Knowing full well that I'm likely to get a wide range of advice...I'm doing it anyway.

Just bought an ACB Doublers picc. I have next to no experience on a picc. Looking for thoughts on a place to start for a mouthpiece.
I use Pickett 5C 10-2 and/or 5D 10-5...depending on the material.
Trent is sending me his 3ES, which should be close in diameter to the 5's.

I've been told that some players prefer a more open bb for picc, to compensate for the feel. I've also heard that using a smaller diameter is sometimes helpful. And then of course, how shallow to go?

Pickett 6D, 6E, 7D, 7E? Use the Pickett picc backbore?

Thanks guys. Again, I know there will be many variety of answers. I'm just trying to get some feel for where to start. Don't want to break the bank searching for a mp. Not to mention I'm just not familiar with picc yet either.

Oh...and, is it quite common to be flat, particularly in the lower register? Again, not sure if this is me, the mouthpiece, or the horn.


Andrew

[crose]

A short shank mouthpiece can help with the pitch. A cheap alternative is a cornet piece with an adapter for tpt. Also makes the safari a little easier.

I prefer smaller diameter, but not a really shallow cup. I use a Shilke 13B for pic.

I think finding a pic piece that works is a little more personal than a regular piece. Be open to suggestion and try lots.

When you find it you will know......

[dstdenis]

Sounds like you've heard many of the relevant suggestions, so you're off to a good start.

I'll just add one comment about the backbore: typically picc players use a mpc with a bigger backbore, as you say. However, backbore also affects intonation. For example, I've found that mpcs with a bigger backbore contribute to me playing the lower register flat and the higher register sharp. The typical solution for that is to get a mpc with a tighter backbore. So, this can be a balancing act.

You may have seen this already, but just in case, here's a good video from Jack Burt with tips on playing the picc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrIrK85ypws
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[Steve Sperry]

I'm assuming that your picc has a cornet receiver. Picc MP are to me harder to dial in. Some folks like the same diameter of ther regular mp. Personally I like something just a little smaller. When I started picc playing, tried a Bach 7ew. Hated it, to small for me and I didn't like the rim edge. Bach and I don't get along. Finally settled on a Stork 5p. I currently use Reeves 43m/s mp. and Stork Vacchiano 2c for my playing, so not too much different.

For back bores, I know of some folks that use the Warburton KT BB. Gives a nice picc sound plus support. If I remember, Warburton and Pickett MP threads work together? The adapter idea is a good option also, Reeves' and GR both offer these so you can use a regular trumpet mp.
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trumpetdork
Benge CG
Yamaha6345HG
Olds Clark Terry Bb
Schilke E3L
Bach 229 25H
Kanstul cct920s
Kanstul 1525 flugel
Reeves' 43 m/s
Haefner 1HX
Stork 5p

[acritzer]

It's a trumpet receiver.
Peter and I have been emailing a bit. He's super nice to share ideas with.

I'm tempted to try his 6E (just happens to be a discounted top for sale) and the #2bb (this is from Peter's suggestion).

Going down to a 6 might help with endurance, same with the E cup (but I'm wondering if the sound will suffer compared to the D).

Still thinking.

[Tpt_Guy]

Just remember the reverse is true also: a backbore too tight can cause a sharp low register and a flat high register.

I second the idea of short trumpet shank picc mouthpieces. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Reeves trumpet-shank piccolo mouthpieces are short shank? Also Pickett Brass makes short shank piccolo backbores, so you may be able to pair one with a workable top section and come up with a great mouthpiece.
_________________
-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee

[acritzer]

[jengstrom]

Different piccs have different playing characteristics. I have a Bach 196 picc, which has a .401 bore (extremely small). It also has a trumpet shank. It came with a Bach 7E mouthpiece. I find that if I use this mouthpiece on this horn, slotting is all over the place. Very loose. However, if I use my normal Bb mouthpiece, which is bigger, slotting is much better. There is still enough bendability (is that a word?) that I can control the intonation, but it's not ridiculous any more.

My point is that you should try several mouthpieces to see what works best on your horn. Even without a lot of picc experience, you'll know. Just don't overblow. They're touchy little rascals.

John
_________________
Bach 43*
Bach 72*
Bach Chicago C
Yamaha YTR-761 D/Eb
Kanstul 1525
Bach 196 picc

[acritzer]

I've never been one to analyze bore sizes...but according to the website this one is .448

[Andy Del]

In looking for a picc mouthpiece, just forget the bore of the instrument, and pretty much anything else. There are so many ways to go, you will need to take some time (and $$$) to work out the approach which works for you.

For me, I use the same rim and almost same cp as my normal Bb mpc. But, for picc I have a very short shank, large throat and open backbore. This works for me, but doesn't for many others. And I can say that I use a Monette prank mpc on almost everything.

My pics come in small (Scherzer) bore, through to .460 (Kanstul) via Schilke and (soon) Thein. My mpc works on them all. I works, to a greater or lesser degree, on most of them!

When I start my advanced kids on piccolo, I use a Schilke 12 or 14 rim... but I'm stuffed if I can remember the cup etc. That's because they are out with kids... seems to work almost universally for them, and THIS is only slightly smaller rims than they normally use.

Just sit back and enjoy the journey!

cheers

Andy
_________________
so many horns, so few good notes...

[acritzer]

Thanks for all the comments. I'm going to go with Pickett as they are such nice pieces and so amazing to work with! I highly recommend using them if you're mouthpiece hunting.

I'm going to start with some of the ideas I had from the OP, and see how it goes. It's intimidating, but also exciting as there is so much nice literature available for the picc.
Plus, it'll be handy for those musicals that have extended picc sections.

[GordonH]

I have taken three approaches to this over the years:

#1
When I was playing a Bach 1 on big Bb trumpet I couldn't use that on piccolo so I used a Bach 6. It gave me the sound and intonation I was looking for in those days. I must have had plenty of air in my 20's!

#2
When I was playing a Monette 1-5M on big Bb trumpet I played the Monette 1-5 piccolo pieces (same rim as Bb)
Again, I was in top form in those days.

#3
Currently playing the Horntrader 3 for big Bb classical. I was using a Josef Klier 7DW for piccolo but when I changed to an instrument with cornet shank I moved to a James R New SM4S with a Warburton 11* backbore. This is a very similar rim to my big Bb mouthpiece. This is a compromise set up as I only play half an hour a day and I don't have the same facilities at 50 that I did at 20.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[acritzer]

Well...small update. Been testing out Pickett 6E, 7D, the picc bb (short shank) and the #2 bb.

I prefer the 7D top. Fuller sound and the diameter change is nice for security...but not too much to adjust to.

The bb's are harder to decide. The tuning is better on the picc bb, but the overall response and sound is easier on the #2. The #2 gives a bit more ring and clarity to the tone. The picc bb actually seems a bit mellow (in comparison).
Using the full size bb it's very difficult to get the mid/low register in tune.

[John Mohan]

Though my mouthpiece choice has varied a bit over the years when playing my Bb or C trumpet, I've been using the same mouthpieces in my piccolo trumpets since 2003 and have been quite happy with my choice - the Bob Reeves 43C with his special piccolo trumpet backbore (with trumpet shank for my Selmer pic and with cornet shank for my Schilke P5-4).

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student

[acritzer]

Probably an equally annoying question as my OP. But...how long might it take to adjust to the picc? I've only had it for a week or so, and am bouncing back and forth on my comfort level.
Paired with the fact that I'm trying to find a mp to stick with, and I'm just a little lost.

For now, I'm concentrating on trying to stay relaxed, use enough (but not excessive) air, and creating a clean/supported tone.

Anything specific to suggest? Other than, relaxed scales...take it slow, not too much time on face to start.

[Andy Del]

[cheiden]

[acritzer]

All good perspectives...
I'm still bouncing around on these different backbores. Want to zero in on something so I can return the others.

Sound and ease of play is better on the standard ones...intonation is better on the short shank, but it's too open for my taste.


Another question stemming from ignorance on the picc. Can I use the Bb pipe to play in A? Using the A I have to push in basically the entire way to get up to pitch (especially when using the full size bb).
Testing it some, it seems the Bb pipe works for A....but I don't know if that will lead to other problems.

[dstdenis]

[acritzer]

Haha...yes, I know much more time is required! That being said. How/when can I settle in on a mp? Searching on the Bb is "safer" I think, because the horn is easier to adjust to overall.

In the meantime I sent Reeves an email to ask about their options.