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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:54 am Post subject: Trad Training Wheels |
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Until my trad band gets better at communicating on the fly I'm planning to experiment at the next rehearsal with some written out roadmaps like this and wondering what you all think of this approach. My goal is to keep it tight with no rambling rose solos.
KEEPIN' OUT OF MISCHIEF NOW
Verse
Clarinet leads ens
Chorus
Tpt leads ens
Solos (over chorus)
Gtr for 16
Bone for 16
Clarinet for 16
Tpt for 16
Out Chorus
Clarinet leads ens _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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rmch Regular Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2012 Posts: 94
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Why 16 bar solos when each chorus is 20 bars? Also, maybe put the trumpet solo earlier in the order so you have fresh chops to lead on the out head. _________________ 1919 King Liberty
1923 Conn 22B
1955 Selmer 24A (Balanced Action)
1981 LA Benge ML #3 bell
1938 Couesnon Flugel
1907 HN White Co. "King" Cornet
1977 Selmer Picc |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Oops. Good catch. ! forgot that MISCHIEF has a 20 bar chorus. And giving tpt more bench time makes sense too. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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I tried that method. I had road maps for every song. The problem is, that document does not read on the fly when looking at the song itself.
Then I told them to take notes on the page. Little scribbles resulted. Of course then there were the ones that said they'd remember it all. Both failed.
Then I had a class on how to write large and sketch it out on the music itself. Also failed.
Admittedly I am dealing with players are are not professional. Under the stress of performing, my methods have not worked except for me directing and pointing and yelling at them that's it's their turn to solo. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe there are no shortcuts to perfection. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Richard III wrote: | I tried that method. I had road maps for every song. The problem is, that document does not read on the fly when looking at the song itself.
Then I told them to take notes on the page. Little scribbles resulted. Of course then there were the ones that said they'd remember it all. Both failed.
Then I had a class on how to write large and sketch it out on the music itself. Also failed.
Admittedly I am dealing with players are are not professional. Under the stress of performing, my methods have not worked except for me directing and pointing and yelling at them that's it's their turn to solo. |
Yes, you are a real man. |
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Arranger-Transcriber Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2003 Posts: 355 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Sure. That should work, but each player needs to transfer your routine onto his part if you're a reading band.
The band I play in has a curious complication. The leader will specify the routine during rehearsal, but come performance time he may not follow the specified routine. Fortunately we have a good rhythm section that helps to keep us on track. |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6191
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:27 am Post subject: |
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To reduce the rambling even more, why not give each player 4 bars, roll through 20 bars with 5 solos and finish with a tutti? |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:05 am Post subject: |
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I like that idea a lot! We'll try it Thursday! _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:47 am Post subject: |
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I'm starting to really like the idea of a duo. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:26 am Post subject: |
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From duo the next steps are...
Solo performance
No performer; audience sings trad tunes
No performer; audience hums trad tunes
No performer; audience imagines trad tunes
No performer; no audience _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Popular in my area is solo performer with backing tracks or just a guy with a guitar singing. Give me a piano player and a duo works. See Ruby Braff and Dick Hyman or similar with a guitar player.
Regarding traditional jazz the size of bands and the instrumentation varied greatly depending on what was available. Even today, looking at the bands in New Orleans, it could be 8 people or three under the same name depending on availability. The same songs are played. True they all know the songs really well. And despite the "street" nature of the bands, they really are all professionals. This is how they make their living. And they are playing these songs every day.
Question for all is how often does your band practice? And for how long does each practice last? _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Rehearsal frequency is certainly a factor.
I have two bands - a 10-piece swing band and a 6-piece trad group.
Why? Because I like both genres and also because it's much easier to get gigs for the smaller group.
As for our rehearsal schedule, both groups have two-hour rehearsals twice a month.
The swing band has a regular, once a month gig at a local restaurant plus occasional other gigs as well
The trad group has no regular gig but is starting to get jobs more frequently.
Most all the players are in one or more other groups and the twice monthly rehearsal plan seemed to be the way to go given everyone's busy schedules.
FYI, in 2018 I'm thinking about changing the schedule to a weekly rehearsal for both groups with the swing band rehearsing the first hour and the trad group the second. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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Oncewasaplayer Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 974
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: |
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My trad band rehearses once a week for two hours. We now have a play list of 60+ tunes. We do create roadmaps for some tunes, scribbled on the top of the leadsheet for each person, with notes about intros, solos and tags. Some tunes we arrange on the fly. After many rehearsals, things suddenly clicked where we learned to pay attention at the end of a person's solo and looking to see who was next or not. Dogged practice of a song pays off. Still mistakes are made and our ability to recover improves all the time.
For ideas on interesting roadmaps (arrangements), I listen to bands I admire and identify their roadmaps. We were playing Girl of My Dreams and then I listened to a CD of the band at Fritzel's in NOLA. Completely different approach to the tune. I then brought that new roadmap to rehearsal and tried it. _________________ Getzen 800DLX cornet
Selmer Sigma trumpet |
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jazz_trpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 5734 Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: |
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In the band I'm currently playing in, we handle it mostly with one person directing traffic with eye contact. But we've been playing together a long time... _________________ Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions! |
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