Lead, Jazz, or both?

trumpet.trader · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Jul 2017 Posts: 200

Valid points, Hermokiwi.

It is very subjective whether one considers somebody an excellent or even good jazz player/improviser. And we all have our own criteria on what makes one excellent or set a standard.

For me a solo has to be interesting, harmonically accurate with intelligent choices and direction and above all else melodic and creative. Which are also subjective criteria

So to be fair it’s a tough list to compose

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

deleted_user_02066fd · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Doc Severinsen's name was mentioned. In 75 or 76 I attended a summer workshop at Quinnipiac University. Arnie Lawrence was one of the clinicians. Arnie played sax in the Tonight Show Band for a time when the show was in NY,
He told us that most of Doc's jazz solos were written out for him. I have no reason to not believe him. He wasn't knocking Doc but simply making a statement. I mentioned that to a very well known trumpeter and teacher. He had a great reply. He said that you still have to have the chops and ability to play it.
I mentioned Danny Stiles earlier. The Qunnipiac workshop was one of the oppurtunities I had to work with him. Danny was a lot of fun to hang around with and learn from.

halfgreek12 · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:51 pm Post subject:

Benny Bailey

trumpet.trader · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Jul 2017 Posts: 200

Clot Gorton · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:51 pm Post subject:

Ryan Kisor
Greg Gisbert
Peter Olstad
Carl Fischer
Walter White

lgt0412 · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:19 pm Post subject:

The thing that sticks out to me after, admittedly only skimming the previous comments, is that almost everyone listed is a "lead" player who can also improvise at a high level. There are very few names I saw that I would consider "soloists" who can play "lead".

Before you blast me, I'm not saying the guys listed aren't great at both. Just that with almost all of them you would peg them as "lead" players first .... then think about their improv skills next.

IMHO, Ryan Kisor and Greg Gisbert are the only two names I saw that I would put in a list with THE great soloists in jazz. For instance, Snooky was an amazing lead player and more than adequate soloist ..... But I wouldn't list him with the Louis Armstrongs, Freddie Hubbards, or Ryan Kisors of the world.

Again, they're all great. I just find it interesting that most are "lead" players who can improvise rather than "improvisors" who can play "lead".
_________________
Van Laar B6
Bach LR19043B
Kanstul 1600
Conn 38B
Van Laar BR3 Flugel
Blessing Super Artist cornet
Greg Black Mouthpieces

rmch · Regular Member Joined: 20 Sep 2012 Posts: 94

I add Brad Goode to the list.

Also, did Dizzy play the lead lines with his big bands enough that he should be considered a lead player? Did he play lead in the other big bands he worked with (Metronome All-Stars, Earl Hines, Cab Calloway)? Should we add Roy Eldridge, too? I know he played lead with Fletcher Henderson for a bit, but did he play enough lead over his career that we can call him a lead player?

Also, Louis led the trumpet section in Erskine Tate's orchestra at the Vendome along with some amazing work with his own big band in the 30s. Should we add him?
_________________
1919 King Liberty
1923 Conn 22B
1955 Selmer 24A (Balanced Action)
1981 LA Benge ML #3 bell
1938 Couesnon Flugel
1907 HN White Co. "King" Cornet
1977 Selmer Picc

furcifer · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:48 pm Post subject:

Dan Miller. If you missed him trading 8's toe-to-toe with Maynard on St. Thomas for the three months he filled in on the MF band back in '91, you missed a real treat. The cat even managed to talk Maynard into trying some improv solos in mutes, as he preferred to do a lot of his own solos in a cup mute. Great facility as a soloist, but traded notes backing up Roger Ingram quite often on Harry Connick's band. Double C's all day that will tear your head off, but he prefers to play small combo improv.
_________________
Stomvi S3 Big Bell -2018
Bach 180ST37 -'80
Benge CG -'78
Buescher LP 9 -1926
Getzen 896S-4 flugel -'86
Conn 18H bone -'64
Getzen M2003E Bb/G bugle
Getzen Titleist 2v soprano G -'79
King K-50 G mellophone
Henri Gautier Cornet C/Bb/A -1919

american boy · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Posts: 344 Location: ny

Lots of greats mentioned here.Couple names I have`nt seen that I think should be in there;
Jimmy Maxwell..Great lead player,and although not really a be-bopper,played beautiful solos in the late swing era style.Just a great great player;
Byron Strippling; Played with him some when he was in NY and freelancing,just after getting off the road with Basie; Great lead player,fat sound,all the notes,swang his a..off..and played really nice jazz too..Since those days,most of you know,he tours around doing a kind of "Pops" thing with orchestras;
Sean Jones; This cats a terrifying jazz player,and plays great lead too;I think he teaches at Berklee these days,but If you get a chance to hear him play live,its well worth it!
Lennie Johnson; Played great lead with Quincy Jones`s big band,and would play really tasty jazz,and was "Mean" with that plunger
Charlie Shavers; Beautiful jazz player,and some of the older folks that I knew that played with him,said that he was nails as a lead player,but is best known for his solos..Gotta go,the practice room is calling!!

jazztrumpetbill · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:32 am Post subject:

Clark Terry should be on the list. He did play lead in his younger days. He could play anything although he was known more for his improvisation talents.
_________________
Bill

Bb Burbank Benge L
Bb Schilke B1
Olds Silverstar Flugel
King Silvertone Cornet

rmch · Regular Member Joined: 20 Sep 2012 Posts: 94

+1 for CT
_________________
1919 King Liberty
1923 Conn 22B
1955 Selmer 24A (Balanced Action)
1981 LA Benge ML #3 bell
1938 Couesnon Flugel
1907 HN White Co. "King" Cornet
1977 Selmer Picc

rufflicks · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:04 pm Post subject:

Add joshua kauffman to that list.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=josh+kaufman+trumpet
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Rufftips

Remember this is supposed to be fun.

trumpet.trader · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Jul 2017 Posts: 200

Anybody have any recordings beyond the couple Yiutube vids with Chris Labarbera?

This guy is such a classy jazz player. Always dropping quotes and such cool lines. I saw him play in Florida back in the early 2000s but never found any recordings.

Not to mention his lead playing and double Cs and Ds that seem limitless and can knock down walls.

deleted_user_02066fd · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

dmr · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:28 pm Post subject:

The fun part of these discussions (for me) is adding names to my list of players I should check out...
Anyway,
+1 for Byron Stripling (monster player! Worth seeing live for sure. The stuff on YouTube doesn't do his sound justice...)
->Dominic Spera. Perhaps better known to the masses for his compositions and arrangements, and as an educator out of Indiana University, but he's an absolutely amazing player..

-Where does Thomas Gansch fall in the spectrum? His 'lead' is more with Mnozil, but the improv chops go on forever. Love the Don Ellis tribute stuff he did a while back....
-How about James Morrison?

-Maybe a separate topic, but there are a bunch of players in NYC who fit the bill, some of whom are/were here on TH... Maybe someone more familiar with all of them will chime in.

CalletJazz · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:42 am Post subject:

Nick Marchione

oljackboy · Veteran Member Joined: 16 Nov 2008 Posts: 290

Great thread. Ken Smukal played lead in the Airmen of Note for years. He played great jazz, too.
I have to re-mention Arturo Sandoval. He played outrageous lead, and his jazz chops are outstanding.

kehaulani · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:33 am Post subject:

Question about the Condoli brothers.

I've always been a fan of them both. But I see them listed here as "lead" players and I don't identify them with any lead playing (save playing lead in combos).

Can anybody recommend any large ensemble groups where the Condolis are playing lead? Thanks.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

Yamahaguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992