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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:03 pm Post subject: Bill Chase |
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I have been listening to Chase on Spotify. Man he was, and the others in the group were/are, great musicians.
That said, I think I need to change the channel as I have about reached my limit of screaming trumpets.
I wonder what influences he would have had on contemporary music if it weren't for the plane crash. I suspect it might have been similar to Maynard's influence. A relatively small group of followers, compared to the Beetls, Beach Boys, etc, but not much of an influence of popular music.
Any thoughts? |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Without Chase, would there have been an EWF? ToP? Spyro Gyra?
Horn driven bands are clearly out of the mainstream in this Country and I suspect it's because so few play these days, but other Countries still have an appreciation. I think Chase must've furthered that. |
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WxJeff Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2002 Posts: 2485 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting thread. Definitely love the Chase albums.
That said, were not TOP, BST, Chicago all developing their horn bands sounds about the same time? (Just got through watching the "Now More Than Ever" expose on Chicago via Netflix.) Those bands, also, were utilizing multiple horn voices as opposed to four screamin' trumpets, which as Rusty pointed out, hold an audience for a more limited period. If I might engage in a bit of heresy, I enjoy Maynard's lyrical stuff a lot more than his screamin'.
Chase also seemed to want to explore the nether reaches of music with the horns. It could be pointed out that Chicago did similar things, particularly on Chicago II and the double album Chicago VII. Chase, though, seemed to have a higher percentage of "out there" musical compositions. That would seem to limit both broad audience appeal and as a result, influence over the long term. _________________ Kanstul F Besson International 800 Bb
Jupiter SCR-520 |
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bnsd Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2014 Posts: 126
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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as much as I appreciate Chase, I think they were fading out in popularity. Earth Wind and Fair, Tower of Power, Chicago, Blood Sweat and Tears, Cold Blood, Paul Butterfield, Southside Johnny... you can probably think of other horn bands, but to a lot of people in the general public, a screaming trumpet doesn't engage them. They have no sense of reference. These bands, while noted for their horns, had some other engaging point; Lydia Pence vocals... The rhythm section tighten of Tower of power... Earth Wind and Fire harmonies
I distinctly remember in high school letting my step-dad listen to some maynard stuff; he hated it... let him listen to Spinning Wheel, and he loved it.. until the trumpet solo.
Chase eponymous album had (I believe) their only hit... Get it On. Not sure what came next? Ennea? Greek Mythology? ... pure music was a good album, but no hits I'm aware of.
I think their decline was imminent. Walt Johnson's tribute, while showcasing some blistering high notes was (to me) trite, and NOT the direction Bill Chase would've gone.
I really wish I played trumpet in the 40's... THOSE guys were the rock stars of the generation... dating supermodels, recording deals, sold out houses...yeah |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think Maynard was mostly lyrical, whereas Chase pushed the envelope. I see the two as nearly polar opposites, given they both had a prodigious upper register.
It would be interesting to see a timeline of said horn bands, did they really develop concurrently? |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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razeontherock wrote: | I think Maynard was mostly lyrical, whereas Chase pushed the envelope. I see the two as nearly polar opposites, given they both had a prodigious upper register.
It would be interesting to see a timeline of said horn bands, did they really develop concurrently? |
Chase played for Maynard in 1958 before he started his own group in the 70's.
A friend of mine had a quadraphonic stereo in the 70s and the Chase album's Open Wide was so cool with the trumpets coming out from the four directions in the opening. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:05 am Post subject: |
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I recently saw part of a Chase concert on YouTube. I don’t remember the song, all four trumpets were playing individual screaming solos. As good as all those guys were, I have to admit it got to be a little bit much, and for the general public I think it would’ve been way over the edge.
Chase was developing his band at the same time as others that were mentioned here, but I do think the other horn bands were just a bit more commercial, with a wider audience. Other than “Get It On”, most non-musicians I know are not very familiar with Chase’s stuff.
I saw Chase and his band in concert around 1971, the opening band was REO Speedwagon; REO actually got a better reception from most (not me!) of the audience.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Robert Rowe Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 5364 Location: Chincoteague, Virginia
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Much technical ability and prowess ....
Minimal lyricism, inspiration ....
~ r2 ~
erudite horn player _________________ ~ Love animals ... don't eat them. ~
I miss Genghis Khan .... |
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blbaumgarn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:30 pm Post subject: Bill Chase |
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I believe I have shared this before in TH. I had tickets to the Jackson Fairgrounds to see Bill the night he passed in the tragic crash. I had two of his albums that I very nearly wore out from play. I have been and always will be a Maynard fan, but Chase hit it with the fusion sound that just "kicked-ass and took telephone numbers." His band was tight and it would have been a great concert. I also saw somewhere on google there was a picture of his horn after the crash. I don't remember but the Schilke Co. may have it now. He has been missed for 44 years this coming summer. The name brings back memories! |
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deleted_user_02066fd New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:45 am Post subject: |
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I remember reading a review of a Chase album when I was a kid. The reviewer made a statement that said he felt Chase was more interested in showing off ball busting technique at the expense of being musical.
As a kid obsessed with high notes I thought the reviewer was a fool. Looking at things now as an adult I would agree. I think I would lose interest pretty quick if I were to sit through a Chase performance. At the time I had not discovered Freddie, Clifford, Thad Jones etc.
Bill was a very fine trumpeter who could do more than scream. IMO with his own group he just didn't always take the time to show it. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:01 am Post subject: |
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razeontherock wrote: | I think Maynard was mostly lyrical, whereas Chase pushed the envelope. I see the two as nearly polar opposites, given they both had a prodigious upper register.
It would be interesting to see a timeline of said horn bands, did they really develop concurrently? |
I’m fairly sure that Chicago and BST may have begun before Chase’s band. I really think Chase was never as popular with the general public as other horn bands for the reasons already mentioned; the average person has no clue as to what it takes to play in the extreme upper register with technique that all four of those (Chase’s band) guys had, and even find it annoying after a short while.
I work with a very good tenor sax guy who likes to use extreme register in his solos, I’m sure most all of the crowds we play for have no clue that a sax playing up there is considerably different than a trumpet player doing the same; and they certainly don’t hear any triple C’s coming out of my bell!
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Kanstul1525 New Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2018 Posts: 8
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Bill Chase did great arranging.
When I saw him live in Schererville, IN I was in the front row. Powerful, exciting.
I wanted to play like the jazz trumpet player, though. Huh? Jerry?
Miss them. But they left a lot of nice recordings. _________________ 4 Strads, 37, 37*, 184 cornet, 229, ML 'C'
1 Benge, Burbank 2X
2 Kanstuls, 1500 Bb, 1525 flg.heavy weight copper
Johnny Ware's 1975 Yamaha Custom Bb |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:02 am Post subject: |
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I met the man. He had a solemn, modest if somewhat tragic personality. I've never seen or met anyone quite like him since. As for longevity sustaining his music had he not died? Well on one hand he had all the tools,
Hard worker,
Superb trumpet technique,
Expressive soloist,
Great writer/arranger,
Highly creative,
Good looking man. Kind of like Elvis that way.
Having good bone structure (handsome characteristics) goes a long way in entertainment. Especially in Las Vegas where Bill had an outstsnding reputation. That and connections.
According to Bill himself his formation of the band was in part, a response to the boredom he endured as a musician in the pit orchestras of Vegas and elsewhere. He had been doing the shows in Sin City so well and for so long that he not only had his gigs memorized (playing them by heart!) but would spend much of his time in the pit working the daily crossword puzzle. This a characteristic of highly talrnted people in very responsible positions.
So he threw that all away in favor of the highly speculative business of Pop/Jazz music. One thing going against him was that the whole Jazz/Rock idiom soon faded. It shouldn't have because so many young musicians absolutely loved that sound. As did lots of girls. Though some of the teen girls I knew of the era absolutely couldn't stand his high trumpets. But most listeners liked it. And all the band geeks loved it.
I believe that even without becoming a martyr he was greatly loved. Also, i consider his popularity under sung. Crowds went absolutely crazy after and during his performances. In other words, the way history records the man's legacy is almost a grossely underestimated report of his impact upon music. That and the generation who followed his music. Not to mention those young musicians in the audience who followed his lead.
Much as the arrival of the Beatles in America early 1964 created a host of inspired little boys to take up the guitar? Both Bill Chase and Maynard Ferguson inspired several generations to learn the trumpet. My guess is that without the existence of these two men? A site like Trumpetherald wouldn't exist. Or if they did they could not exist at least not to the size and scope of which it is today. _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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amateurcornetist Regular Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2018 Posts: 20
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Robert Rowe wrote: | Much technical ability and prowess ....
Minimal lyricism, inspiration ....
~ r2 ~
erudite horn player |
You are wrong.
"Twinkles", a flugel piece on the third album, "Pure Music",
is one of the most beautiful things ever recorded by any musician.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1e9NjxTeLo
...
Last edited by amateurcornetist on Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9030 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Self-deleted. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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amateurcornetist Regular Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2018 Posts: 20
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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amateurcornetist wrote: | Robert Rowe wrote: | Much technical ability and prowess ....
Minimal lyricism, inspiration ....
~ r2 ~
erudite horn player |
You are wrong.
"Twinkles", a flugel piece on the third album, "Pure Music",
is one of the most beautiful things ever recorded by any musician.
... |
For anyone who hasn't heard "Twinkles",
written and performed by Bill Chase,
here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1e9NjxTeLo
... |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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amateurcornetist wrote: | Robert Rowe wrote: | Much technical ability and prowess ....
Minimal lyricism, inspiration ....
~ r2 ~
erudite horn player |
You are wrong.
"Twinkles", a flugel piece on the third album, "Pure Music",
is one of the most beautiful things ever recorded by any musician.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1e9NjxTeLo
... |
I agree that it’s a nice piece, nicely done. I also think your last sentence is very subjective. It’s your opinion, and that’s fine, but it’s still just your opinion.
Music is an art form, and like any art form it’s highly subjective. I happen to think Chase was a PHENOMENAL player, others might disagree.
Opinions.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9030 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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razeontherock wrote: | Without Chase, would there have been an EWF? ToP? Spyro Gyra? |
Yes.
I have always enjoyed his solo with Woody's band on Days of Wine and Roses. Simple but tasty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A40p-zYrej0 _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | razeontherock wrote: | Without Chase, would there have been an EWF? ToP? Spyro Gyra? |
Yes.
I have always enjoyed his solo with Woody's band on Days of Wine and Roses. Simple but tasty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A40p-zYrej0 |
Yes, agreed, absolutely.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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plankowner110 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Kanstul1525 wrote: | Bill Chase did great arranging.
When I saw him live in Schererville, IN I was in the front row. Powerful, exciting.
I wanted to play like the jazz trumpet player, though. Huh? Jerry?
Miss them. But they left a lot of nice recordings. |
Bill Chase was indeed a good arranger. Case in point:
"A Taste Of Honey" chart he did for Woody Herman, recorded on November 22, 1963. Best arrangement ever of that popular song. _________________ C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763 |
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