Conn V1 "Feel"

pjtpt · Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:34 pm Post subject:

I finally tried a Conn V1 the other day (3 actually, a silver plate--reverse lead pipe, a regular lead pipe rose brass bell, and a sterling silver bell normal lead pipe) and I noticed a strange feel when playing it: it felt like a bugle. It felt like there was a vibration or buzz (felt not heard) like when you're playing first and third valve or all 3 valves up in the middle to above the staff. I noticed it the most on low C, less on second line G, etc.

I play on a Bach 72 with a stock 1 1/2 C mouthpiece. When I play low C on my horn I don't get that type of feedback or response like I got on the V1. I'm not saying that one is right or wrong--it's probably just another point of preference and opinion like most things I've read on this site. My question is: What Is That Sensation?! Has anyone else encountered this type of thing?

Just curious...

plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620

I suspect that your mouthpiece does not fit well into the V1 receiver. I've never detected the vibration you mention with any V1 I have played.

trumpeterb · Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:04 pm Post subject:

Resonance. CV1's resonate really well. I think that is a good thing. Horns that do not resonate may have too much stress on their braces, or improper brace placement. The entire horn vibrates on a CV1, not just the bell. It is a great horn.

Andy

BrassClass · Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:08 pm Post subject:

I have never played a V1 but the difference in weight may be causing part of that sensation. My lightweight Yamaha "Z" seems to vibrate more that my Bach 37 that is heavier. Based on what I'm playing, that can be a good thing.

pjtpt · Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:14 pm Post subject:

First of all I know how a mouthpiece fits into a trumpet (sheesh)...

Second of all my use of the term "buzz" wasn't quite right. It's more of a sensation really. I get a sort of feedback (another poor choice of words?). Low C feels different and has that sensation that I'm not expressing very well.

I LIKED the horn. My comment was out of honest curiousity if any one else has "felt" that on this or any other horn.

It's not going to feel like my bach because it ain't my bach. Neither good nor bad, just different.

_dcstep · Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:34 pm Post subject:

I think that you were feeling the resonance of the horn. The V1 is resonant in comparison to most Bachs. If you liked that what you felt and heard with the V1, then try a Selmer-Paris Concept TT. The TT's bracing and leadpipe design make it very resonant. Another very resonant horn is the Schilke B1L and it's brother and sister tuning-bell L's in the Schilke line. Every once in a while you'll run across a very resonant Bach and those will tend to be much prized by Bach loyalists.

Anyway, I think you've decovered what many like so much about the V1. Oh yeah, it's also well built and in tune.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:44 pm Post subject:

I believe plankowner's post wasn't accusing you of improper mouthpiece placement, rather a question of whether the piece fit right. I know a friend of mine tried a CV1 with a Yamaha 16C4-GP and it didn't fit right in the reciever, the shank was loose and could easily be pulled out, there was a lot of air escape. The gap would have needed mondo-adjusting had she purchased this horn, but luckily that isn't her normal piece, and everything else fit in there fine-even my 16C4. I think the shank on that one may have been off, or perhaps the venturi was too loose on that particular V1.

mononoke · Regular Member Joined: 16 Oct 2003 Posts: 12

I have a WIld thing Bb with me. It resonates very well, and i think it is what you felt with your horn. There's this tingly sensation especially in the lower register which makes the instrument feel alive and vibrant.

However there are two views to this.

FIrstly, some people like Mr HArrelson feels that this vibration is a bad thing because energy is dissipated and causes the sound to have less core. I believe I had read some mathematical proof for it in some website before, and it all makes sense.

Secondly, another school of thought will be that the vibration produces a more, well, vibrant sound which sizzles. The explanation for it makes sense too.

Just my $0.02 cents on this.
I am sure there will be other people who can answer your question much better than me.

Cheers!

_dcstep · Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:32 pm Post subject:

Whenever possible, I think it's always best to hear a horn when played by others before making a final decision as to whether you prefer it are not. The objective of our listening demonstration at the DFW Trumpetfest was to let those in attendance hear several horns for themselves. The V1 did well in the listening test, receiving more first place votes than any other Bb horn in the demonstration.

After playing a bunch of horns and hearing a bunch of horns, I think that all the theorists right and wrong at the same time. There are too many variables to conclude that one is better than the other whether heard in the players' hands or out front. Listen for yourself and decide whenever possible.

I tend to gravitate toward resonant horns, both as a listener and a player.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

Kenman · Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:07 pm Post subject:

dcstep,

which model V1 did you compare? I have the 1B-46 on loan right now and it's not doing to well against bach horns.. I've played for a large group of trumpeters and nobody picked the V1. We compared it against 2 bach 37's and 1 72.

The V1 feels great and sounds great to the player .. but when you stand out front the bachs seem to have much more core sound and projection from anyone who played them.

I tried both tuning crooks.. didn't like the square one at all.

Do I need to try a different model?

thanks
Ken

Trptbenge · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:34 am Post subject:

I tried three V1's last week. all three had the 46 leadpipe - two had the Rose Brass bell and one was silver plated. One of the two Rose brass bell V1's was a great player - the other one was just okay. The silver plated one was the best of the lot. It was very responsive and free blowing. I didn't experience any of the vibration mentioned in the earlier post.

Great Horns!

Mike

[ This Message was edited by: Trptbenge on 2003-12-01 05:34 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Trptbenge on 2003-12-01 05:35 ]

_dcstep · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 3:52 am Post subject:

We used a yellow brass 1B-34 at the DFW Trumpetfest. Almost everyone that compares the leadpipes seems to prefer the 34, in my small experience. I think the rose brass bell is slightly of dull, yet the soloist in my DCJB uses a rose brass and sounds great.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:32 am Post subject:

I use the standard 46 leadpipe dc, and am quite happy with it. Not to say different strokes for different folks doesn't exist of course, but everyone I've met around me ahs the standard 46.

bent trumpet · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:40 pm Post subject:

I know what you are talking about. I also think it is resonance. I experience it to some degree on my WT, and on some of my vintage horns. The V1 and the older horns I have seem to do it the most. I like the sensation, and if the Selmer Paris Concept TT is that type of horn, I think it is worth looking into.

Hey dcstep, where is a good place to purchase a Selmer Paris Concept TT ?

_dcstep · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:11 pm Post subject:

The Selmer-Paris Concept TT is certainly a resonant horn in all the best senses of that word.

Roger Holmes at the Dallas LBJ store of Brook Mays sold me mine. His phone number at the store is 972-233-9633. I took the last one in stock BUT Roger has a great connection at Selmer-Conn and can probably get what you want quickly. The Selmer-Paris website doesn't do a really great job of showing the various finishes, but it has a real nice picture of a clear lacquer horn. See http://www.selmer.fr/html/english/cuivre/cuis/cui22/cui22.htm I love the look of my gold lacquer and I've heard good reports about the matte lacquer. Haven't seen or heard of a silver or gold plate, but it's evidently available. Tell Roger that Dave Stephens said to call.

BTW, Roger has a very complete selection of Vintage Ones with almost all the bell and leadpipe combinations. Same for Yamahas, Jupiters and Bachs (he brought about six Bach Cs to our DFW Trumpetfest). Brook Mays used to have a really poor selection of pro horns, but now, thanks mainly to Roger, they've really started stocking a good selection of high quality horns in most setups. Anybody looking for new horns should give him a call to see what he has. The website sucks and is not reflective of what's really available.

Ciao,

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest