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trumpetchops Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: A little mouthpiece story. |
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I have been looking for a better lead mouthpiece for a long time.
When Trent was closing his store I took a ride to say hello. I told him what I was playing and what I thought I wanted. He gave me 4 or 5 to try. 2 of them were really easy to play and I went up to an F over high C with no effort.
You know I bought one.
I came home and didn't have time to practice. I had a lot of gigs so I couldn't mess around with a new mouthpiece. Well, I did give it some time and then took it to a rehearsal. We played a chart that went up to F and N.G. What the heck? At home it worked.
I still worked at home with it to get used to it.
I brought it to a rehearsal this morning playing lead. The parts didn't go to F but still D and E. The mouthpiece worked well. Still, not better than the old one but not worse either. I just have another mouthpiece.
So, my conclusion. A change seems to help for the short term but, it's really the player. _________________ Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct. |
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trumpethead Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 444 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, that's the same story most of us have I would think.
I bought a Curry 30M last week and at home, fitted me perfectly, everything was great and performed like some magic mouthpiece.
Did a gig with it last night and almost nothing worked with it...
Trumpet really is a tough mistress. |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5680 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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I've always wondered at people who buy a new mouthpiece and are immediately like, "man, this thing is great! I was nailing triple Q's and R's all night with it last night lol!"
For me, a new mouthpiece (or horn, for that matter) is always a fairly lengthy acclimation period that lasts somewhere between 4 and 8 weeks if it's a big enough change.
I changed a few years back from my longtime lead mouthpiece, a Schilke 14A4, to a Warburton 4SVW/KT. It took me about a month before it started to feel "right," but I got it for a specific reason, and I believe it accomplished what I was hoping to do, and that was to be a bit more accurate on it than I was my 14A4.
The same thing was true when I switched from a Schilke B6 to my Jupiter 1600i, except that acclimation process took almost 2 full months before the horn felt like "home." _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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I've learned that given time I will sound like me and play like me no matter what is in the end of the horn.
So now, I play what is most comfortable and makes things the easiest. _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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trumpethead Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 444 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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jaysonr wrote: | I've learned that given time I will sound like me and play like me no matter what is in the end of the horn.
So now, I play what is most comfortable and makes things the easiest. |
Agree 100% with this but (rhetorical question).., how do you know unless you've tried others'? |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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There's almost some honeymoon period. You can't draw any meaningful conclusion until you truly acclimate. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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trumpethead Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 444 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's very similar to trying out horns too.
One doesn't REALLY know until you use it on a gig situation. |
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trumpetchops Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 1:43 am Post subject: |
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For the new mouthpiece to work better than the old one, something has to change. Physically something is moved. If we can figure out what it is, maybe we can keep it. I haven't given up. _________________ Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct. |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 4:35 am Post subject: |
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trumpethead wrote: | jaysonr wrote: | I've learned that given time I will sound like me and play like me no matter what is in the end of the horn.
So now, I play what is most comfortable and makes things the easiest. |
Agree 100% with this but (rhetorical question).., how do you know unless you've tried others'? |
I have probably tried them all _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 6:28 am Post subject: |
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trumpetchops wrote: | For the new mouthpiece to work better than the old one, something has to change. Physically something is moved. If we can figure out what it is, maybe we can keep it. I haven't given up. |
I think it's the expectations that have to move...
When we try a new piece, especially when already satisfied with what we have, it's easy to relax and let the piece perform more like it wants to...
When the chips are down, though, it has to do what we want it to - make us feel like we sound like "me", play in tune, project, tolerate us pushing 10% extra volume, etc.
I guess what keeps us coming back to our favourites is that they'll let us do what we need to do... And we've learned how much we can bend them to our will.
Under battle conditions, we just don't want to relearn our limits (which we have to do before we can push/extend them) |
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CJceltics33 Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 475
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Same happened to me. I tried my band comductor’s Patrick mouthpiece and my range went from a high C to a fairly big High G. I freaked out over it. Weeks later I tried it again and couldn’t get a nice tone above the C. So I learned my lesson! |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: |
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When you find a mouthpiece you like, be sure to note how it is sitting in your trumpet, and replicate the location exactly. You can also find the spot by "dialing in" the mouthpiece. That means you pick a point on the mouthpiece as a reference (say the "B" in Bach, or the "Y" in Yamaha), and put it at 12 o'clock (straight up) with the letter as your "dial". Play an excerpt or exercise. Then, move the letter to 1 o'clock, and repeat. Some prefer to every couple hours to make a bigger swing. On every mouthpiece I have owned, there will be a sweet spot that you find that works best with the piece and the leadpipe you have. It takes a little time, but then you will find the area, then work to the exact spot in that area. Once you find, memorize the spot and always set your mouthpiece in that spot when playing it on that horn. Each trumpet and each mouthpiece will differ, so your 1C will work best in one spot on the Bb, but might be another on your C trumpet. Your 3C will work differently, and again have to be "dialed in" for each horn you play.
I had an old Giardinelli 3M that I had dialed in on my Bb many years ago. Sent it to Stork to duplicate, and he found that the mouthpiece was slightly out of round on the rim, and the widest spot was the spot that I had dialed in as my best spot. He duplicated the mouthpiece at that spot, and it worked great. I knew that other 3Ms had not worked as well and felt small. I then knew why, and the duplicating process became of value. I dialed the new piece in and used it. The old one is retired, saved as a back-up. A tiny witness mark is on it to remind me where the mouthpiece played best back when I used it a lot.
All of this to say, try dialing in the piece on your horn before you give up on it, Those minute changes can be all it takes to make a mouthpiece feel better and work as it did originally when you bought it.
And, never sell your 7C....still have a NY 7C here that is the best 7C I've ever played. It will sell in my estate sale someday! But not today..
AL _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5680 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:10 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if that's the difference between having a good night on the horn, and a slightly off night on the horn on the gig. At one point I had clocked one of my mouthpieces, but I never really put too much time or thought into maintaining it. I might have to do that again with my current equipment. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9365 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Yes, there's a honeymoon period with mouthpieces and horns that initially seem too good to be true. There doesn't seem to be one with those that leave a bad first impression, though (probably because the wedding is quickly annulled). And as said previously, playing at home doesn't equate to playing in the "heat of battle". The best way I know of to evaluate a horn and/or mouthpiece is to take it to a rehearsal with a good group. You will discover pretty quickly if it works for you, or at least if there's a reason to continue the evaluation. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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starkadder Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 May 2008 Posts: 542
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: |
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I've found that using a shallower mouthpieces to hit a high note is useful to a point. I played the Curry 30M in the past, but concluded it is too bright for every day use. Where it is useful is when I'm aiming for a high note on which I don't feel secure. When the note starts to lock in, I switch back to my regular mouthpiece.
So, the 'bent dime' can be useful to overcome a mental barrier, more than a physical barrier. |
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iiipopes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 555
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: Re: A little mouthpiece story. |
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trumpetchops wrote: | So, my conclusion. A change seems to help for the short term but, it's really the player. |
This statement should be the top sticky on the forum, on the banner page, in the classifieds, in short, everywhere. Period. _________________ King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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trumpetchops Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:47 am Post subject: |
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dr_trumpet wrote: | When you find a mouthpiece you like, be sure to note how it is sitting in your trumpet, and replicate the location exactly. You can also find the spot by "dialing in" the mouthpiece. That means you pick a point on the mouthpiece as a reference (say the "B" in Bach, or the "Y" in Yamaha), and put it at 12 o'clock (straight up) with the letter as your "dial". Play an excerpt or exercise. Then, move the letter to 1 o'clock, and repeat. Some prefer to every couple hours to make a bigger swing. On every mouthpiece I have owned, there will be a sweet spot that you find that works best with the piece and the leadpipe you have. It takes a little time, but then you will find the area, then work to the exact spot in that area. Once you find, memorize the spot and always set your mouthpiece in that spot when playing it on that horn. Each trumpet and each mouthpiece will differ, so your 1C will work best in one spot on the Bb, but might be another on your C trumpet. Your 3C will work differently, and again have to be "dialed in" for each horn you play.
I had an old Giardinelli 3M that I had dialed in on my Bb many years ago. Sent it to Stork to duplicate, and he found that the mouthpiece was slightly out of round on the rim, and the widest spot was the spot that I had dialed in as my best spot. He duplicated the mouthpiece at that spot, and it worked great. I knew that other 3Ms had not worked as well and felt small. I then knew why, and the duplicating process became of value. I dialed the new piece in and used it. The old one is retired, saved as a back-up. A tiny witness mark is on it to remind me where the mouthpiece played best back when I used it a lot.
All of this to say, try dialing in the piece on your horn before you give up on it, Those minute changes can be all it takes to make a mouthpiece feel better and work as it did originally when you bought it.
And, never sell your 7C....still have a NY 7C here that is the best 7C I've ever played. It will sell in my estate sale someday! But not today..
AL |
I played with a quintet the other night and asked about this.
Other trumpet, Yes I do it. It makes a difference.
F Horn, What are you talking about?
Trombone, Yes I do it but, mostly forget to do it
Tuba, What are you talking about? _________________ Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct. |
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jhahntpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 676 Location: Southington CT
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:40 am Post subject: |
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That whole "dialing in" thing works with poorly made mouthpieces that have scaring on the inside of the throat or backbore. Any mouthpiece using modern manufacturing processes has totally smooth on the inside and will not change in any meaningful way when rotated.
Curry are the best affordable option that are smooth, I know my Monette pieces are smooth, and every ACB mouthpiece I ever owned was too.
I remember Trent showing me a cross section of a Bach mouthpiece and I was horrified by the gashes left in it from the manufacturing process. _________________ Bb: Yamaha 9335NY Gen3
Bb: Yamaha 8310Z
C: Shires 4S/W1B
Piccolo: Yamaha 9830
Flugel: Yamaha 8315G
Cornet: York Eminence |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9365 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Clocking a mouthpiece works in two different situations:
1) Your mouthpiece was machined a little crooked, and it plays better for you in a certain position.
2) You horn plays better with the mouthpiece maker's name on top, no matter which mouthpiece or horn you're playing... _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Re: Clocking the mouthpiece,
I just keep the model number of whatever mouthpiece I have in on the bottom so I can see it easily by holding the horn vertically. _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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