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Tivolian Regular Member
Joined: 22 May 2018 Posts: 84 Location: Upstate New York
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: Martin Schmidt horns |
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Hi all. This is my first posting, although I've been reading various discussions for several months. I'm traveling to Potsdam, Germany later this summer and learned that the Martin Schmidt store is there in town. They have some very cool looking horns on their website, and I'm particularly intrigued by their rotary flugelhorns. Does anyone have any experience with these horns? They seem a bit pricey. Worth it? Thanks!
--Tivolian |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome.
I have not heard of the brand so it will be interesting to hear what people say. |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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You can find interesting nuggets of info on various TH threads by doing a google search with the following:
site:trumpetherald.com martin schmidt
…results in…
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=site:trumpetherald.com+martin+schmidt&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
I have been to the Martin Schmidt website when looking into an F. Schmidt (Frank) piccolo over a year ago. They are not the same, of course. Posters on one TH thread from 2012 stated basically that the F. Schmidt line was the house brand for Brook Mays music stores, and that it was at one point made at the B&S plant (if labelled “Made in Germany” on the bell), but is now made in China, according to one poster. Not sure how to prove the F. Schmidt line origin now, unless a TH member works for Brook Mays or another dealer of that line. Incidentally, I am between piccolos, having sold and traded some recently, so I had to borrow an F. Schmidt (without “Made in Germany” on the bell) and played the Vivaldi Gloria tonight. Nailed it with my Warburton 4MS with a 9* backbore. Any mouthpiece smaller than that just sounded too nasal-y. It worked in a pinch.
Back to the Martin Schmidt line: One TH thread emphasizes how well built they are, that they are on par with Scherzer, Schagerl, and Thein.
At the end of the following TH thread, you’ll find a list of trumpet makers in Germany. Maybe you could also visit some of these while you’re there.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12062&sid=ec500d82a2f9641c4987f887c9914203 |
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Tivolian Regular Member
Joined: 22 May 2018 Posts: 84 Location: Upstate New York
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your replies. It seems there's not a lot out there about this horn maker. That makes me a bit worried about resale value if I were to bring a horn home with me. |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Tivolian wrote: | Thanks for your replies. It seems there's not a lot out there about this horn maker. That makes me a bit worried about resale value if I were to bring a horn home with me. |
Martin Schmidt makes world-class horns. I was lucky enough to own his Orchestra Model Bb for a number of years, and used it for solo and orchestral repertoire - Mozart's Magic Flute and the Hindemith Sonata being two occasions where I went out of my way to use the horn and was delighted by the results.
Now, as to your question about resale value - sure. I did not receive what I thought the horn was worth when I did ultimately make the hard decision to sell it (student loans!). However, if you go about buying a horn with the though of turning it around for sale, you're skipping a number of more important concerns, in my opinion: What do you hope to play on the instrument? Will this horn replace another one in your arsenal, and will that free-up room or $$$ to help you to keep the new horn around for longer?
I'm curious about your interest in the flugelhorn, too. Rotary Flugels are really cool instruments, but their application can be limited to solo work and certain, ultra-specific wind band and ethnic/folk settings. Of course, Jimmy Owens is most at home with his rotary flugelhorn, and the variety of timbres you could get out of a Martin Schmidt rotary flugel, coupled with its easy of playability might be very enticing. To speak to your concern about the price, just compare to other top-end European makers, and you'll find Martin Schmidt to be rather reasonable.
In the US, their piccolo trumpets are the most sought-after, with Gerry Webster as one of their most visible and vocal advocates. The horns look a bit like other famous rotary piccs, but play in a class of their own.
Curious to hear what comes of your visit - enjoy it!
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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deleted_user_da44b37 New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:47 am Post subject: |
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The Martin Schmidt rotary trumpets are not very common in professional orchestras in Germany although they are good horns. The second trumpet of the radio orchestra in Berlin is playing a bflat rotary and is very happy with it.
I can’t say anything about the flugelhorn.
I live in Berlin, next to Potsdam, oh wait it’s Potsdam next to Berlin😄.
If you need help during the summer feel free to send me a pm. There are 2 more trumpet factories 2 or 3 hours from Potsdam. Weimann and Kühn.
Weimann also builds rotary flugelhorns.
Hope this helps. |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: |
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trumpetinberlin wrote: | The Martin Schmidt rotary trumpets are not very common in professional orchestras in Germany although they are good horns. The second trumpet of the radio orchestra in Berlin is playing a bflat rotary and is very happy with it.
I can’t say anything about the flugelhorn.
I live in Berlin, next to Potsdam, oh wait it’s Potsdam next to Berlin😄.
If you need help during the summer feel free to send me a pm. There are 2 more trumpet factories 2 or 3 hours from Potsdam. Weimann and Kühn.
Weimann also builds rotary flugelhorns.
Hope this helps. |
Weimann are getting increasingly popular on this side of the pond, as well, but they are PRICEY, at least once they get to the US and Euro/fees are accounted for. I know a teacher near me is one of the major Ricco Kühn advocates, and importers - would love to try either horn, someday!
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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Tivolian Regular Member
Joined: 22 May 2018 Posts: 84 Location: Upstate New York
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Thanks very much, Dan and Berlin. To be honest, I don't know what my ultimate plans would be for a Martin Schmidt horn. I'm a "comeback" player (>40 year layoff after high school, now about 18 months into return) and am just enamored of all things trumpet, while I work diligently on progressing. I have two nice Bb trumpets and a cheap flugelhorn, the latter which I might like to upgrade. Candidly, this is a hobby. But it seemed very cool that a potentially world class trumpet maker was there in a German city I'll be visiting professionally. Call it the "kid in a candy shop" syndrome. Resale value actually isn't much of a concern -- if I were to buy a horn, I'd want it for the long haul. Have never played a piccolo trumpet. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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I live in Potsdam and Martin Schmidt is my go-to trumpet man. He overhauled my Bach, which plays much better now.
My dream instrument would be this https://www.martin-schmidt-potsdam.de/instrumentenbau/drehventil-instrumente/b-trompeten/modell-weite-mensur/ but I just cannot justify and/or afford it right now.
I also play tested the regular flugel, not the round models. This is a very elegant horn with a very easy blow and excellent workmanship. I don't plat that much flugel, so I have no need for it. Would be a great horn for someone really into flugel. Not as broad or dark as e.g. the B&S horns.
Schmidt also does customizations; I have seen Professional Line piston trumpet with lightweight bells or with MAW valves etc. that are not listed on the website.
Bring some time when you go there and be aware that not all models will be available at all times.
Have fun! _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Allright, here we go again - quick update. Spent two hours in the Schmidt shop yesterday and have decided to get one of the new-ish models, an Excellence model, for orchestral use. While I said above that I loved the Weite Mensur model, the Excellence model fits much better for what I play. The Weite Mensur is wonderful but a massive horn. More suited for a large symphony where one competes with a million other instruments.
The Excellence model is perfect. Responds easily, awesome intonation and even with almost no air the sound is there. Plus it sounds distinctly different than a piston trumpet, warm, dark, and broad, yet very present (it should but not all rotaries, especially those poorly constructed, do). Martin Schmidt also specifically commented on how my mouthpiece seemed to be a very good match with the horn (not knowing what I was playing - Curry 7 TC).
I also play tested a very light version of the Professional Line piston horns and also this baby responded much better than my 1992 Bach. Plus the sound was much more even, not to mention intonation. The notes just sit there. Not as dark or broad as the Excellence, but a wonderful horn for all things jazz and related. Actually, I am debating whether I should get rid of everything but the C and get that horn as well. Of course that is where money comes into play but but but ...
Oh, and I also saw one possible reason why the horns are not very common (read well known) - the serials of the horns I played yesterday are in the 500s range. That is, since the beginning of the shop 30 years ago, there have probably been less that 600 horns on the market.
@ Tivolian: did you get a chance to get to the shop? What was your experience? _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Tivolian Regular Member
Joined: 22 May 2018 Posts: 84 Location: Upstate New York
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, thanks for continuing the thread (I'm the OP). I ended up spending maybe two hours at the Martin Schmidt shop in Potsdam, hosted and guided by Lukas Schmidt. He was extremely knowledgeable and generous with his time. I tried their "round" style rotary flugelhorn (3 valve), a rotary b-flat trumpet (I think it was the "orchestra" model), and their "professional" line b-flat valve trumpet. Many of their other models were not in stock, but that was okay with me due to limited bandwidth to make comparisons. I found their horns to be fantastic. I particularly loved the round style flugel, which had a gorgeous, rich sound, but wondered what I would ever use it for (I'm an amateur....). The valve action was excellent -- quick, precise, easy. So, I ended up not coming home with a new instrument, but I'll keep my eye on the Schmidt shop's products. _________________ Tivolian |
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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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@ jetjaguar: not the same shop - we're talking about this one here: https://www.martin-schmidt-potsdam.de/
@ Tivolian: funny how we are different - the Orchestra model is the one that fell of my list rather quickly. I also played the Heckel II. Great sound but much less open than the Weite Mensur or the eXellence model that is on order now
As for being an amateur: so am I, my semipro big band days are long over but in fact I keep thinking: if not owning a good instrument now in my mid-40s when would be the time to buy it? I'd rather only have two horns but really good ones ... _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I know. That is why I said it is an "other" Schmidt. _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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I have never played (or even seen) one of the BW Schmidt trumpets, so I cannot comment on these. There are, however, at least two more Schmidts out there.
https://www.hsm-brass.de/
https://www.schmidt-brass.de/
At least BW (the one you brought up) and WC Schmidt seem to be in the same company, as you find the (highly renowned) mp making of Werner and the trumpets of Bernhard Schmidt on the same website.
They are all located in Markneukirchen, which is one of the central regions for instrument manufacturing in Europe. Plus it is touristically attractive - been planning to take the family on a vacation down there. No special reason other than vacation, of course _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Those BW Schmidt trumpets are beautiful, but I have no testimony on how they play. _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
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gringoloco Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 1196 Location: Mrida, Yucatan
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Hello all.
I spent a couple of hours in their workshop in Potsdam with Lukas last August. I tried the Heckel, Orchestra, Large Measure, Excellence, Natural trumpet and Round Flugel. Everything was EXCELLENT.
There is a big difference between the models. The large measure was enormous and exhausting to play, the Orchestra model was middle of the road and more like other modern rotaries I've played and the Heckel was the tightest. I mentioned this and Lukas gave me a rather large JK Classic mouthpiece to use and it balanced out the horn nicely. In the end the Heckel was my favorite. The Bb and C felt nearly identical and they have a very particular sound. They are the most traditional of the horns they make, a modernized version of the classic Saxon F. A. Heckels.
The Excellence model felt (and sounded) a lot more like a (very good) piston trumpet.
I will also say that the round Flugel was pretty special. The response was unreal and what a sound. Unfortunately, there was no picc in the shop to try that day.
These horns are at the top of my list for rotaries.
Rob |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with the Heckel types being tight. Originally I intended to buy the Heckel II for my orchestral stuff but ended up liking the eXcellence much better. While I agree that it blows much more open and more like a piston, I do not find it sounds like a piston trumpet.
The sound difference between the eXcellence and my Bach 43 is quite obvious to everyone listening. Possibly this has to do with mouthpiece choice - on the eXcellence I use a Curry 7TC which is funnel-ish and makes the sound rather broad and mellow. Haven't tried plugging in my Yamaha 14a4a
I do however strongly agree that the Schmidt Instruments are excellent. With my new horn I really feel I have way more room to focus on music because the instrument is so much easier to play than anything I played before. As stated above, I am REALLY considering selling everything else (and possibly getting a Schmidt piston trumpet as well ). _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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alonshofar Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 185 Location: Mrida, Yucatn, Mex
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Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Martin Schmidt instruments are top quality. Our orchestra purchased a set of three heckel model C trumpetsfrom Martin and all I can say is that the instruments are a joy to play. |
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