KEN BURNS JAZZ - This may be obvious

Ruechel · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:36 pm Post subject:

I am about to finish viewing the last installment and i could start over again, i like this documentary so much. I am close to dropping the C-Note required to own the whole set. Any comments on it from anybody?

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

I think it's a great documentary, but I also think it has numerous flaws. For example, I thought too much time was spent on ragtime and the music it influenced. In fact at one point I thought the documentary would never leave that style behind and move on. An important omission I think was the fact that no time was spent on the contributions of Stan Kenton’s jazz education initiatives and the resulting college movement that eventually spawned college jazz studies programs and degrees in jazz performance.

I loved the fact that they kept returning to Louis throughout the series. Towards the end it was like visiting one of your grand parents. You know, the new bebop was cool but let’s go check out ‘Pops’ and see what he’s up to. That was excellent I think. I also enjoyed the fact that the series interwove important American history (God I do love history) and its integral relationships with sociological issues within the various periods of the music.

Of course, there will be the Wynton haters around here who will zero in on him and try to knock his participation in the series. Me…I don’t have a big problem with Wynton and if he wants to talk or play, I’m willing to listen. I could go on and on with this topic. The Burns documentary was talked to death after it first aired but it’s cool to revisit this topic now that some time has passed.
Larry

Bozzaman · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 323

Check this parody out.

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=495&forum=3

Still gets me.

B--

JackD · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:18 am Post subject:

Haha that's great, thanks for the link.

tim · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:20 am Post subject:

The highlight for me of the Burns' set is the footage - just remember to take everything in the series as someone's opinion. Sometimes they're right and sometimes they miss the mark....

Xenoman · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Nov 2001 Posts: 1209

I agree with Larry (as usual) - it's a great series that contains some hits and some misses with regards to jazz and the people who shaped the music. It is a good “starter course” that will provoke you to dig deeper and find out more.

I think Burns did a very good job capturing the social climate during the different periods (WWII, Civil Rights movement). The footage (video and photography) is out of this world. Seeing Clifford Brown perform was a special treat for me. The DVD contains some bonus footage of Miles Davis performing "New Rhumba" with the Gil Evans Orchestra and Louis Armstrong performing "Stardust." This series put a HUGE soft spot in my heart for Pops. He was great.

Folks can knock and joke about Wynton but if you watch this series there is no mistaking that he loves the music that he plays. There is one part where he talks about Monk and plays a few bars of Epistrophy on his trumpet. You can't fake that kind of joy and enthusiasm.

Another plus of the DVD series is you can turn on a feature that lists the titles/artists/album name of the tunes that are being played in the background. I picked up quite a few CDs while watching this series.
_________________
Eric M. Brewington
http://www.jazzbrew.com

Ruechel · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:05 pm Post subject:

the documentary cemented my fascination and love for the music. yes i am sure there are mistakes and there are several omissions, in fact, there are many; we don't hear a lot about hubbard, dexter gordon, booker little, ron carter, curtis fuller, cedar walton, slide hampton, james moody, bla, bla etc. etc. every film or book is a finite entity and sometimes you have to filter it down to some essential aspects of the genre, i guess. as far as wynton is concerned, i thought the post was extremely funny and even though it is a gross caricature, it says something about the man; firstly none of us (with maybe the occasional exception) have met or know him so we can't judge his character. anybody who has spent this much time perfecting his art and has shown this degree of dedication to the preservation of an art form can't be entirely concerned with himself. yeah, people, call him a vain, self-inflated neo-conservative show-off-i can't agree because i don't know his music well enough to make that call -besides he can back his sh&* up with anybody out there who wants to take out his horn and take a crack at that dude: and in THIS life it ain't gonna be me! Wynton does seem a bit hammy, sort of "hey let me make some real smart, introspective comments about this dude or that cat so everyone sees what a profound capacity on the subject i am." *(the part where he talks about Duke Ellington's personality and being a ladies' man is a bit strange indeed.). i know Miles said some pretty nasty things about Wynton..well he didn't treat most people short of gil evans, philly joe jones and tony williams with kid gloves and beat his women to a pulp on top of it. BUT WHO CARES?, the guy was a musical genius! i am not concerned with his character so much as with the fact that he made me pick up the horn! Gary Giddins and Stanley Crouch as well as most of the other guys were pretty much on point; i don't think that the caricature has any merit there. Don't hate because you don't know your sH&*% as well as Gary. Be grateful instead because that motherF$%^ has written some beautiful literature on the subject, namely on Mr. Armstrong.

[ This Message was edited by: Ruechel on 2003-12-03 20:11 ]

JackD · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:02 am Post subject:

Just to clear something up: I am most certainly not a Wynton-basher. In fact, quite the contrary. I think he's one of the greatest trumpet players around today, and my personal favourite. I just found that parody captured something about both Wynton and Stanley Crouch's way of talking, and was pretty funny.

I enjoyed the Ken Burns jazz series, and to be fair they did state that they were not going to concern themselves with modern jazz.

SPITTY · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:16 pm Post subject:

The first problem with this series is how it was positioned and how it was marketed - it is called Ken Burns' Jazz - when it may have been more appropriate to title it Ken Burn's Jazz - the first 50 years - or Ken Burns' Favorite Jazz Masters or something along these lines. This film is just missing too many greats and too many ingredients that make jazz what it is - notably a Latin influence. It is also full of innacuracies. In terms of representing this great art form, it's very sad.

It is absolutely preposterous that so many non-jazz fans have seen the film and now think that jazz is some kind of museum music and that Wynton is the chief curator. (Please keep in mind that I love Wynton's playing and have a great respect for what he does.) Also, instead of consumers buying the original albums by the musicians featured in the film they are all slapping down their money for these compilations with Ken Burns' name all over them. Why is Ken Burns making all of this money and getting all of this notoriety for an art form that he knows nothing about and could really care less about? He once said that Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" (a sacred piece of music to me) was good for getting laid to. What nerve and how disrespectful!! I have many many problems with this film as does the rest of the jazz world. So for whatever it's worth there's my two cents.

Instead of paying $100 for this set, you could buy great CDs or attend a live show by your favorite jazz musicians who are active, living and struggling to make a living while they perpetuate this great art form.

Spitty

pfrank · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:27 pm Post subject:

If it makes you feel any better Spitty, in Beentown those KB CDs are selling for $2 in the overstock bins.
I agree with the comment about the footage...I really valued seeing things like Chick Webb's drumset. It is also a reminder that what we think of as jazz--an art form as elevated by our modern heros--started as a musical way to get through a rough life. Oh, and that it was an oral tradition too.

SPITTY · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:10 pm Post subject:

Hi PFrank,

That's good - I guess Verve printed too many!

Hey, since you are in Boston I should let you know of two great shows coming up there, which you may be aware of already. Dave Douglas will be at The Regattabar on February 18th and 19th (playing music from his new CD - Strange Liberation - coming out on 1/27) and a great trio from Sweden called e.s.t. - The Esbjorn Svensson Trio will be at Sculler's on January 22 (this is one of only two US performances).

I dig beantown - my wife and I travel there a bit and always have fun - there is an incredible italian rest., wish I could remember the name of it. How is the jazz scene there for local players. We often talk about relocating one day so I'm always curious about what it's like to live in other cities.

Best Regards,
Spitty

pfrank · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:56 am Post subject:

Thanks for the tip Spitty--Dave Douglas is one of the only artists I'd pay Reggatta Bar prices for--wicked expensive (a Massachusetts/RI saying) plus you have to pay for parking in the hotel garage because the building is on Sturro Drive where there is no parking...

I'd say that Boston is better now for new jazz than it was just 5 years ago. Pairings of more experrimental improvising with elements of hip-hop as well as a swing back to acoustic 70s avant guarde (messy) styles are going on here and there. A good example would be The Fully Celebrated Orchestra, (cat plays an old Conn cornet...it might be a Bousher) the Miracle Orchestra (allot of "Orchestra" names), The Slip, Beat Surrender... mainstreem jazz if for the sub-berbs (as is Heavy Metal...) or in the Board Rooms of Great Financial Institutions for their dressy receptions (if you can keep it quiet)

With Berklee and the NE Conservatory in town, Boston will always have a wealth of players to work and develop things with.

Except for piano trios in the lounge Ryles only seems to book national acts. Jonnie D's in Somervill is easier to get into, and the Zeiggeist Gallery in Inman Squ. continues to be a venue for improvisational music of all kinds, some ensembles from the NE Conservatory do their thing there too. Some rock clubs (like the Middle East) have booked some of the room filling jazz groups, but if you have no following, forget it.
Like many places, Boston is a place where you get more attention if you are from out of town.

Rents in Boston are only as high as they can possibly be, but the digital products market crash opened things up a little. There are allot of out-of-work programmers and middle managers. There are still jobs to be had at coffee shops...and the Walmart waste land of America will never happen here. There are too many cars on the roads, but it's not as bad as Atlanta I guess.

The radio in Boston is the best in the USA. I woke up this morning to The Bad Plus brilliantly covering "Smells Like Tean Spirit"--the Harvard Radio station WHRB is jazz in the morning, WERS (Emerson Coll) is the afternoon and WGBH (NPR) is the evening jazz. Then at night WZBC (Boston Coll) has "No Commercial Potential" where you can hear how much amazing music in all idioms is beeing made on the planet regardless of the dismal state of commercial radio etc.

Ruechel · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:31 pm Post subject:

spitty,

i'm gonna have to second that notion on Trane. I doin't necessarily think it's disrespectful, i think it plain stupid to say such a thing. It just means he doesn't understand the piece. While A LOVE SUPREME is certainly one of the greatest musical achievements of all time, i am slowly stepping away from calling anything musical 'sacred' Trane has that effect on people; they even dedicated a whole church movement in San Fran to him in which he is a saint. John Coltrane was without a doubt, one of the most gifted and blessed musical geniuses of our time but he was a human being, plain and simple. As far as ken burns goes, i'm glad her did what he did, nobody has to buy it, i think it was well done and came close to very high quality. if anyone else wants to step up to the plate and make a better one, be my guest.