Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:06 am Post subject: Tone and bad days
I am a senior trumpet player in high school and I have fairly good range and tone and skills but some day I pick up my horn and ND my lips just don't feel right and everything sounds bad that day.
Does anyone know how to fix this? _________________ 🎺🎺~~Sam~~🎺🎺
Joined: 21 Jan 2015 Posts: 145 Location: Cincinnati
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:40 am Post subject:
Hello,
Your post could be the exact experience of almost every serious trumpet player at one time or another during their career. The fact is, it takes awhile to develop the ability to sound good all of the time. Even the best players have bad days, but they've learned what they need to do to make things work on those days.
My biggest piece of advice would be to truly embrace the idea that there really are no mysteries when it comes to developing a high level of proficiency on the trumpet. You don't have to have a good day, or get lucky. Nope, you simply need to adequately develop each aspect of your technique. There can be no gaps.
This is a tedious and lengthy process, but it can be very enjoyable!
Make sure that you are studying with an excellent pro, and talk with them about your concerns. They will most likely be able to help you determine what you're doing differently on days when things don't seem to work.
Joined: 21 Jan 2015 Posts: 145 Location: Cincinnati
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:48 am Post subject:
Hello Again,
On a more specific note, be sure that you are not playing too loudly all of the time. Many of my high school students go through periods when they are required to play far too many hours in a day, especially during marching band season.
Playing loudly for may hours a day can be very hard on the chops of a professional player, not to mention a developing student.
I recommend beginning and ending each day with some very quiet, resonant playing. Try to get a beautiful ringing sound at the PP dynamic. You may find that you've simply been over-blowing on the days surrounding your "bad" playing days.
Of course, it's impossible for me to know for sure if this is the issue you are dealing with since I've never heard you play. It's simply something I've witnessed in many of my own younger students.
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5680 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:07 am Post subject:
My take on this is a bit different. Over nearly 37 years of dealing with this instrument, I've had days where I pick up the horn, and things just aren't working. When I was younger, I used to push and push trying to make something good come from the bad. Eventually, I realized that I was doing more damage than good on those days, so now when that happens, I finish a bit of light playing - basically running through a warm-up of sorts, and then the horn goes back in the case for the day.
I know that there are seasoned pros who can't afford to take the time off of the horn, but for most of us mortals, it's ok to simply put the horn away for a day and to re-approach it later.
Eventually, when you are at this long enough, the days when things aren't working well are going to be fewer and further in-between. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject:
In my experience, the best way to minimize bad days is a well crafted daily routine. If you're not sure you have one, find a pro player and get one. It'll save you a lifetime of wasted effort and frustration. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:43 pm Post subject:
The issue on the table are 'those' days. We all get them, and should all have a suitable routine which helps us develop our production skills so these off days are minimised.
But what about the days they happen? It's been hinted at that pushing through is not a good idea, and to take it easy as well. Great advice.
Then there's the days you have to put out and play, even if you feel bad. I've found that early warming up helps, as does recognising it's 'one of those days' and taking steps to minimise the effect. For me, it's about slowing down the warmup / routine and getting basics working correctly BEFORE moving on. If necessary, put the horn down, go away and come back later and warm up again.
As I teach full time and have other commitments, there are days (weeks) when I can't do enough work to stay in shape. I've gotten used to recovering faster, not stressing about a day or 10 off and working to make sure I sound good, and am playing as efficiently as possible.
It certainly helps! As does being prepared, giving it time and not giving up and forcing...
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes...
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2330 Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:29 am Post subject:
I don't know of any trumpeter that doesn't know bad days.
Routine! Part of having a warmup/routine is to combat the peaks and valleys. Not only is it a great way to refresh and build skills, but on good days the warmup takes you into practice or performance very quickly; on those not so good days, it can expand and tke you to a point that you can accomplish what's needed.
This was a considerable issue for me early in my trumpet life and to some degree still. My bad days were really bad. Having that routine, allowed me time to gain the confidence to do the job I had to do. It is a commitment... i.e. for a 9am rehearsal in the AF, I was opening the case by 730 and starting my warmup/routine. Very quickly I could tell if I need to slow down and spend 30 to 60 minutes working out the kinks or could do a 15-20 minute thing and be ready to go.
Then knowing yourself helps. I learned that the 3rd or 4th consecutive nights of a tour was my most challenging, most fatigued. At that point I would have played a lot but not yet gotten into the swing of "tour" chops. Once I figured that out, preparing for that made for better results.
Salty foods before don't help.. salty popcorn at a Matinee before a concert has a terrible affect on my chops.
So as you build your skills, pay attention to everything! Reflect on those days and see if you can find a correlation. There may be something or may not.. It's all part of the journey.
Not to send you down a life-long equipment safari (and I hesitated including this in my post), but the right gear will have an impact on this too. Part of the solution for me was finding a mouthpiece (rim especially) that I'm not fighting on a daily basis. NOT to say that the mouthpiece choice was my problem, but certainly a contributing factor.
Find a solid teacher(s) and start building a routine / approach to getting better. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:49 am Post subject:
Conventional wisdom is to take it easy on bad days. Maybe don't even play. I think that's true if you're still exhausted from strenuous playing the day before. But if it's just a random bad day, I think it's better to go ahead and play. Just don't try to play as if it were a good day. Find your level and work from there.
For example, suppose you'd rate your playing as 10-out-of-10 on your best day. One day, you try to play and find you're having a bad day. Maybe a 6. What should you do?
Instead of trying to play material at your 10 level, the very limits of your ability on your best days, work on things at the 6 level, where you are now. Figure out what's holding you back and try to improve it.
For example, maybe your sound production is bad and your embouchure isn't responding. Work on that for a bit. Experiment with making it better. You might find a few problems, fix them, and get your playing up to a 7. That's a win for you.
There's a great deal of value in learning how to do this. (1) You will learn likely causes for bad days specific to YOU. (2) You will learn how to fix them, or at least make them better. (3) You will become more analytical and self-aware about your playing strengths and weaknesses. (4) You'll gain confidence in your ability to pull yourself together when the show-must-go-on. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5680 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:51 am Post subject:
zaferis wrote:
I don't know of any trumpeter that doesn't know bad days.
I recently attended a master class with Rene Hernandez, assistant principal of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra. In that master class he talked about how he deals with having to play after days where he's really beaten himself up on the horn and things aren't working optimally.
I figure that if it can happen to someone like Rene Hernandez, it can happen to the rest of us mere mortals. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:08 am Post subject:
Part of your warm-up routine, which you'll develop gradually based on your own unique needs and body, should be designed to get your chops working no matter how beaten up they are. Some days it really isn't easy!
On days when I'm fresh, I can be warmed up in about 5 minutes. On days when my chops are beat up, it can take 45 minutes or more!
As you develop as a player, you'll get a routine down that can help you on those off days. The point is that all players have them - you just have to sort of learn to manage them as best you can when they inevitably do happen. My routine is based on Schlossberg but Lord knows there are any number of routines that work for different players.
Andy Del's comments ring very true to me - recognizing that it's "one of those days" and slowing down the warmup until everything is working optimally is extremely important, I think.
One of the reasons I like to use comfortable and shallow mouthpieces is to make my less terrific days go easier.
At one point my "bad days" evolved into "less terrific" ones. Many of my peers still use sharp edged, extra deep mouthpieces with large inner rim dimensions. Hey they all sound good. For five to twenty minutes. _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject:
Lionel wrote:
One of the reasons I like to use comfortable and shallow mouthpieces is to make my less terrific days go easier.
At one point my "bad days" evolved into "less terrific" ones. Many of my peers still use sharp edged, extra deep mouthpieces with large inner rim dimensions. Hey they all sound good. For five to twenty minutes.
I'm glad you found something that works for you. If I don't have just the right amount of bite to hold my lips I wind up spending energy to keep my lips from sliding out. And too shallow I quickly bottom out. On the comfy shallow piece, I'm only good for twenty minutes then I'm toast. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:45 pm Post subject:
To the OP: I strongly recommend watching these 3 videos, a clinic by Doc Severinsen. I found his comments extremely illuminating regarding precisely what we're looking for from a warm-up. Video 2 is particularly amazing - listen to Doc work over and over at the first few notes of Charlier #2 (around the 20 minute mark of video 2/3).
Sam,
Perhaps try doing a daily routine, sort of a "warmup plus" that can do you the most good. I have one that I would be happy to share with you that uses Clarke, Schlossberg, and Caruso six notes. I've found that a daily routine will iron out any bugs and help to normalize your chops for more practice or playing.
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Tone and bad days
Tnsamhooker wrote:
I am a senior trumpet player in high school and I have fairly good range and tone and skills but some day I pick up my horn and ND my lips just don't feel right and everything sounds bad that day.
Does anyone know how to fix this?
Hey Sam,
Lots of good info in this thread, i've done both, put the horn away for a day and also use a routine to balance the chops back into playing form.
The thing that i have found with the routine that i do, a variation on the bill Adam routine is that when i have the discipline to do the exact same thing, with no cheating, everyday, for weeks at a time, it helps all parts of my playing fall right into place, especially when i'm beat up and the chops are sore. Do the same thing every playing day provides a consistent measuring point for evaluation. A lot of Days its the only playing i get to do, my routine.
It's not really long, but the consistency keeps things where they need to be so that playing a 4 hour gig, like i did this past weekend really isn't a problem.
work it out with a teacher, if you can, Adam stuff worked for me, but all the Methods have merit and will work if they are right for you.
Joined: 11 Feb 2017 Posts: 24 Location: Upstate NY
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:16 am Post subject:
Much of this echos the good advice already given.
As trumpet players we play 100's of exercises 1000's of different ways. Each one puts something different on your chops or makes them feel different (including how much rest in between)
Create a mental catalog of these differences then apply them during your warm-up on the "bad" days to counteract whatever does not seem to be working.
I have found that lightly single tonguing an exercise can fix that chalky, swollen lip feeling when notes don't want to speak. Lip trills help on days when my lips feel stiff. Starting an exercise on the top note and playing down helps on days I feel too spread out and makes the high notes feel closer. YMMV. If you do this with patience plus an open and analytical mind you can make it work for yourself and your face.
I am not a professional player or always successful at this but it was taught to me by someone who was and I think this approach is part of what separates the pro player from the rest of us (or at least me). His story was that he could not afford to have a bad day so he found a way to do himself a favor and make it work so he could work.
I used to have those ALL the time. I had a teacher who said that once he got to a certain stage, he never had a bad day again. At first, I did not believe him, now I do. I can not remember my last bad day. But, it depends on what you mean by bad day, The more experience I get, the more trumpet becomes a purely mental thing.
A bad day could be caused by too many things going on in your mind (i.e., the monkey mind) that prevents you from having your usual focus. It could be that you are physically exhausted, i.e., working hard at school, adding either activities, and operating on poor sleep and nutrition. Then, there is probably the most common cause, you have "over trained". All of these causes can be helped by the following approach.
When we approach the trumpet physically, that is when we really fight the horn on bad days. Think of how much you love playing music. Then, take out some moderate range etudes like Hering's 40, and just try to play them as beautifully as you can. Or, some other favourite thing you love to play but is simple to moderate. Just spend some time doing that. How long? Maybe 45 minutes.
When I have a day like that, I take out Clyde Hunt's Arban Duets CD, and I play Duets with him. When you focus on music, a beautiful sound, on simple material, it takes your mind off physical things and how you feel. I guarantee it will be up lifting. It will change a bad "feeling" day to a good "feeling" day.
DK _________________ I learn from my mistakes. I can repeat them perfectly every time.
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