Tuning A Piccolo trumpet to organ

65strad · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: Tuning A Piccolo trumpet to organ

Curious to what are best note/s on organ or piano you use to tune A Piccolo to.

Thanks in advance
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Tpt_Guy · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:42 pm Post subject:

A.

All joking aside, if I'm playing pieces in D, I tune the open A, the 4th valve (written D, concert B) and the first valve for for concert D (written F). I have a third slide ring on my picc, so I can adjust that as needed.

If you can, check YouTube for the videos of Wynton playing Baroque music with Kathleen Battle. You can see, based on fingerings, how his picc is tuned. For example, in Let the Bright Seraphim he uses 1+3 for High D (concert B). I believe, but certainly can't prove, it is this way because he had to adjust the 1st valve slide to get his concert D in tune, which would make that concert B sound flat if he used just the 1st valve.
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65strad · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject:

amzi · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:40 pm Post subject:

A pipe or Bb pipe I was taught to always tune to the note that was produced when the 4th valve as depressed. You should know your instrument to know what fingerings should be used and which slides need to be manipulated to play in tune.
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Andy Del · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:49 pm Post subject:

What you need to do is make sure the note you are tuning to is reflective of the organ's state of pitch.

With an A piccolo, I ask for an A and tune 4ths and 5ths to that. BUT, I also ask, if not done, for something like an open diapason stop, and definitely zero mixture so it is easier to hear.

cheers

Andy
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zaferis · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:59 am Post subject:

I like A and or D. D as much of the Baroque things I end up playing are in D.

But you must keep your ears open, as with many church organs (with pipes) the different stops can be out of tune with each other. And with all the colors and overtones from the instrument and resounding in a church, I too find it challenging to lock in on pitch sometimes.

Knowing the tendencies of my picc and myself, then carrying a tuner to help (visually) to learn where that partiular organ is tuned is my MO.
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65strad · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:18 am Post subject:

65strad · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:20 am Post subject:

John Mohan · Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:02 am Post subject:

If it's a Baroque piece in D, then I check the Concert D (F on the pic) and maybe the Concert A (C on the pic).

Someone previously wrote that he was taught to tune the horn with the 4th valve pushed down. But every pic I've played needs the 4th valve tuning slide pulled out about half an inch to an inch to make the F below Low C and the notes below it play in tune. So I do not see the merit of trying to tune the horn with the 4th button pushed down (better to tune the horn first, and then pull the 4th valve slide out to where it needs to be to keep those low notes from being sharp relative to the tuning in the rest of the range).

Hot tip: If you are finding that your high Concert D (F on the pic) is coming out sharp, use 1st and 3rd valve for it. That'll drop the pitch a bit.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

Organs can be tricky beasts, they can. (Sorry, watching some old Harry Potter movies with wireless headphones while warming up for the day on an adjustable cup mute...can't help to write and speak that way.)

I've played solo trumpet for many weddings through the years, but finally found that the best way for me to tune my piccolo (A side) was to have the organist sustain a big D major chord, while I slowly and methodically at first move around on D major arpeggio tones all over the horn. It has provided the best way for me to find "center," and I end up feeling much more comfortable locking in a little later during the prelude/ceremony. If you do this, don't be timid to ask the organist to sustain the chord, and break, a few times as you move the mouthpipe to the "best" place for you. Tell them in advance that it might take a little time as you reposition the mouthpipe in between sustained chords. Initially, it could require a minute or two to find the ideal spot for your blow.

If I'm playing on the B-flat side, I'll have them sustain a big B-flat major chord. I do not like tuning to a soft single A or B-flat coming from the organ. Although I can make that work, it doesn't account for the pitch variables on their instrument, which can be many, especially from one organ stop to another. Another huge variable is the timbre of the pipes and how our ear reacts to them and tries to meld that sound with that of our piccolo. I found that the louder stops have given me the best alternative, which I think is because it gives me more support to relax and blow with a full sound, and finding "center" becomes easier in that state. I will also move the 1st and 4th slides during this tuning period. Sometimes, it’s good to get things set with this process and then play an 8-bar phrase of the Clarke Trumpet Voluntary (or whatever rep would suit you) to help with further adjustment. After you’ve done this a few times with different organs before different gigs, you should find the process goes faster and that your micro-tuning adjustments zero in much quicker.

65strad · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:21 am Post subject:

dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

You're welcome! And yes, I teach.

Tromba15

I've played piccolo trumpet for 40 years in a variety of settings - including orchestral, quintet and with pipe organ.

Tuning to a pipe organ can be problematic. Years ago, when I first started working on picc, a good friend was organist at a large church nearby and for a period of time we got together weekly and played. Early on we discovered that it was easier for me to tune to stops that were more pure - with strong fundamentals - like the flute stops.

This was a terrific pipe organ that was tuned regularly!

It makes sense that the more overtones overlapping in the organ stops, the greater the chance of a clash with the overtones of the picc.

In addition, I found that some mixtures/registration combinations just don't sound good with the timbre of a piccolo trumpet. occasionally I've had to diplomatically ask for a clearer combination of pipes when I played with less aware organists - example: weddings!

This can make all the difference!
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tomcherv · Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:28 am Post subject:

I concur with these recommendations. The idea of using a principal (diapason) or flute is best.

I would definitely stay away the reeds and mixtures as well as any stop with a fraction. The 8' pipes will provide the expected pitch, 16' an octave lower, 4' an octave higher, and so on.

Also, don't use the strings or Celestes. Some of these are purposely off pitch to provide the beat/waver that you sometimes hear with an organ.
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trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

I tune to A. That being said, I usually have to adjust after about 8 bars or so.
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patdublc · Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:31 pm Post subject:

Like others said, I too typically am playing music in D so I tune to D concert. Much of the time, after tuning, the horns sits idle for some period of time which could be up to an hour before I play it again. I find that as soon as I play a few bars, the horn tends to warm up and sharpen. So, in that situation, I tend to tune the horn a bit flat. For me, it's a lot easier to start flat and blow a few bars up to pitch that it is to go sharp and have to try to blow the rest of the piece down.
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deanoaks · Regular Member Joined: 02 Apr 2015 Posts: 75 Location: US

I personally tune to A and check up on the 4th and 5th as well. So the organ honks an A, I play (on A picc) C F G C. That usually gives me a good idea what my pitch tendencies are that day and helps me settle into the organ. Everybody I've met does something similar but with their own intonation quirks.