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Cola Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2017 Posts: 29 Location: Alma, Quebec
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:42 am Post subject: Sudden amnesia |
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I suddently forgot how to play. I've had GREAT weeks in may-june, then all of a sudden I forgot everything. My embouchure. What the f? People usually say to rest and re-start with long tones. I've been doing this THE WHOLE WEEK so stop it with your usual ''play softer, long tones, easy stuff'' blabla, because I've done EVERYTHING I had to do to play right. I rest, I think about the important stuff when I play, but why did I lose my grip and why is it NOT coming back? How can I get out of this hell, I could blow all my range up to a high C (not the greatest, but for someone who went through all kind of changes like me, it's ok I guess). Now I'm struggling to play a Frickin' MIDDLE C at ppp in my long tones. WHY?\!!!!@!?%? I have so many problems with the horn. My teacher says it's all good and will come back, but it doesn't. I feel that at any point in my life, I'll never know when I play at my 100%% and it literaly took its toll on my mental health, but the more i try to outsmart the horn, understand it, experiment with techniques and routines (I am very obsessive about balanced, strict routine), the more I have ups and downs. I've had an embouchure change, but it feels like it's not settled. I did it more than a year ago, it should be dealt with!!!!! WHY AM I CURSED TO BLOW THROUGH THE HORN AND NEVER KNOW WHAT HAPPENS, even though I do everything to make things consistent?
Here's my routine, if you think there's an issue
David zauder's trumpet method (A,B,C sections), including a warm-up
Day 1 (med)
AB
Clarke n2
repertoire (30 m. max)
Vamp over 13 minutes of a progression (blocks of 3-4 mins.)
Day 2 (hard)
AC
Lick in 12 keys
Vamp over 13 minutes
Day 3 (easy)
A,Clarke n1 and 3
Concones
Repertoire (45m)
Vamp over 13 m
And my 4 components
1) Breathe! (from bottom, open throat)
2) Center (tongue level, saying ''m'')
3) support (from bottom, push through the horn)
4) Comfort (manage rest/play, corners, angle of horn, posture, pressure)
I feel my playing and inconsistency do not represent how hard and smart I am trying to work. |
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coraltrpt Regular Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2016 Posts: 88
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:51 am Post subject: |
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From my own experience: I had to go through two embouchure changes and dealt with a lot of frustration/pain. I know that your situation is a little different, but what got me through that period was doing exercise 1-4 of the buzzing book by Thomson everyday. Not overblowing and trying to center everything. This was prescribed by my college teacher.
Doing that everyday started to make me feel better, and was a little bit like a meditation routine. It certainly won't work for everyone, but I found a lot of comfort in that. Maybe try that for a couple weeks? The recordings are free on the Editions-BIM website. |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Without seeing ands hearing you, no one here has the faintest cue as to the physical issues you are describing.
BUT, the way the post is written gives a very strong clue that this is not something about the way you are playing, but the way you are thinking. The post is one long explosion of emotive writing, and this, if translated into practice, will get one nowhere rather fast.
Instead of being frustrated with the horn, with the challenges and problems it presents there needs to be another way. My personal thought is that you need to stop, look at the issue that occurs and work on that in a positive manner.
There is a saying about life being a journey, not destination. I feel the same about playing the beast, it is a journey and we are never at the final stop where all is fine and dandy. Rather the opposite. If you spend some time listening to great players speak about playing, they seem to come from this very same point of view. The Monster Oils interviews are a great place to begin...
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Heim Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 181
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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If you really want to know, post a video. |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Edited.
Last edited by dstpt on Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:56 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Betelgeuse215 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 186
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Working out of the Thompson Buzzing Book might help your situation |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1474 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Sudden amnesia |
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Cola wrote: | I suddently forgot how to play. I've had GREAT weeks in may-june, then all of a sudden I forgot everything. My embouchure. What the f? People usually say to rest and re-start with long tones. I've been doing this THE WHOLE WEEK so stop it with your usual ''play softer, long tones, easy stuff'' blabla, because I've done EVERYTHING I had to do to play right. I rest, I think about the important stuff when I play, but why did I lose my grip and why is it NOT coming back? How can I get out of this hell, I could blow all my range up to a high C (not the greatest, but for someone who went through all kind of changes like me, it's ok I guess). Now I'm struggling to play a Frickin' MIDDLE C at ppp in my long tones. WHY?\!!!!@!?%? I have so many problems with the horn. My teacher says it's all good and will come back, but it doesn't. I feel that at any point in my life, I'll never know when I play at my 100%% and it literaly took its toll on my mental health, but the more i try to outsmart the horn, understand it, experiment with techniques and routines (I am very obsessive about balanced, strict routine), the more I have ups and downs. I've had an embouchure change, but it feels like it's not settled. I did it more than a year ago, it should be dealt with!!!!! WHY AM I CURSED TO BLOW THROUGH THE HORN AND NEVER KNOW WHAT HAPPENS, even though I do everything to make things consistent?
Here's my routine, if you think there's an issue
David zauder's trumpet method (A,B,C sections), including a warm-up
Day 1 (med)
AB
Clarke n2
repertoire (30 m. max)
Vamp over 13 minutes of a progression (blocks of 3-4 mins.)
Day 2 (hard)
AC
Lick in 12 keys
Vamp over 13 minutes
Day 3 (easy)
A,Clarke n1 and 3
Concones
Repertoire (45m)
Vamp over 13 m
And my 4 components
1) Breathe! (from bottom, open throat)
2) Center (tongue level, saying ''m'')
3) support (from bottom, push through the horn)
4) Comfort (manage rest/play, corners, angle of horn, posture, pressure)
I feel my playing and inconsistency do not represent how hard and smart I am trying to work. |
I agree with Andy D; however I wouldn´t exclude overuse syndrom.... much because I experienced the same thing couple of years ago - at the end barely a faint middle C popped out. All of which affected me a lot on the emotional level. What was happening? Playing life over etc.
The cure was not rest but reinstalling the embouchure and for that I did need help - probably you do too. Think it over- as Andy recommends!
There is a life ahead of you _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Cola Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2017 Posts: 29 Location: Alma, Quebec
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Cola Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2017 Posts: 29 Location: Alma, Quebec
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:33 am Post subject: |
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[youtube]https://youtu.be/Ats0E4-CPww
Here's a 3 in 1 exercice, sorry for mistakes and rush, I had to do this quick but it kinda shows some common mistakes I guess. You may not hear it but I AM breathing[/youtube][/b] |
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oxleyk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: |
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IMO, your mouthpiece is too far off-center which is causing you to pinch the higher notes. In fact, we can see you pinching on the left side. I say this from my own experience. Many of us play off-center but I feel that you are overdoing it.
Also, you're playing the scale and arpeggio exercises way too fast. Slow down until you learn them. If you practice slop you learn slop. |
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Cola Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2017 Posts: 29 Location: Alma, Quebec
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
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oxleyk wrote: | IMO, your mouthpiece is too far off-center which is causing you to pinch the higher notes. In fact, we can see you pinching on the left side. I say this from my own experience. Many of us play off-center but I feel that you are overdoing it.
Also, you're playing the scale and arpeggio exercises way too fast. Slow down until you learn them. If you practice slop you learn slop. |
1) I have tried very hard to play in center but my teeth don't help. I am working on my angles to solve this.
2) sorry for that,as I said i was in a rush and nervous (I absolutely hate playing to trumpet players) I am known to be a perfectionist otherwise, so don't worry about this. |
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EdMann Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: |
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If I may, you sound a bit like I used to sound as a newbie. You are playing too loud, plainly. Use a metronome and get focused. Nothing helped me more than those two items: metronome and soft practicing. If the notes aren't speaking softly, they won't sound good with more air/volume. It may necessitate that you start with your chops closer together. Just a suggestion!
ed
Bach dude |
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oxleyk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: |
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OK, any dental interference is not obvious in the videos. Carry on. |
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Cola Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2017 Posts: 29 Location: Alma, Quebec
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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EdMann wrote: | If I may, you sound a bit like I used to sound as a newbie. You are playing too loud, plainly. Use a metronome and get focused. Nothing helped me more than those two items: metronome and soft practicing. If the notes aren't speaking softly, they won't sound good with more air/volume. It may necessitate that you start with your chops closer together. Just a suggestion!
ed
Bach dude |
I have been told that I play way too soft most of the time. Thanks for the condescending comment, It makes me want to stab myself out of anger. |
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EdMann Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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So sorry. I had no reason or intention to condescend you. Yet another reason, in over 2000 posts here, that I have made maybe 5 playing suggestions over the years. It was nothing more than a suggestion, just based on what I heard. Please don't stab yourself! I have enough guilt!
Wishing you well. There's not much worse than not getting along with our chosen instrument. I have many mouthpieces lodged in the walls of my house to prove it!
ed |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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I've had several times in my years playing where things were going along fine then I ran into a wall and I lost a lot of ground. In my case there was no way my facility was going to come back because I had developed some habits that were ultimately faulty and not sustainable. The more I played, the worse I got. Each time I had to get back with my teacher who could identify where I got off on the wrong path, reset to a more rudimentary routine and start rebuilding. Don't' be discouraged, the more trials that end in error you get behind you the more likely you are to find a better path.
I'm no pro but from the video it does seem that you're compensating for some significant dental issues. Even your speech seems to be affected. Are you setting up in a high spot or a low spot?
Also, it seems to me that you're using up a good deal of lip compression even playing in the staff which could be limiting your ability to go higher. I know you mentioned about folks saying you don't play loud enough, but I'd suggest that a daily amount of quiet playing, sometimes with only air attacks can help you establish a closer and more relaxed set in the lower and mid registers. That could help. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Cola,
If we were reviewing your playing in person, I'd ask you to slow down your playing and take a bit more time between each attempt. I felt like you were hammering away, impatient, and getting frustrated with yourself.
You have some skills, but I think your impatience is messing you up. Why not try a more deliberative approach? Visualize what you're about to play. Clear your mind--don't let your inner voice nag you about your playing. Think about what you're about to play, what it should feel like and sound like. Then play a short segment.
Once you've finished that segment, rest for a moment and think about how you did. Don't nag yourself. Be calm, and think of one thing you want to do better next time. Visualize it. Clear your mind, and try again. I think that, with a more deliberative, calm, thoughtful approach, you'll start to make progress again. Good luck. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting clip. You made it to show people your problems, hence, you have problems in the clip... do you get my drift? Play to be good, not show what is wrong.
What I do notice.
- You don't really breathe, it is very shallow. Work on your breathing a lot more than you think you do. You may disagree.
- You use a mute? Get rid of it immediately. you may disagree.
- The mistakes, such as in your Ab major phrase was such you didn't appear to be conscious of what you were going to play, just going through the motions, expecting it to not work. A little later, it got to the point you could only get a note or so out. This is where you must slow down, go back to basics and not worry about the mistake, but playing well.
- you comment you are not moving anything. But, you are making a huge amount of pivoting movement both going upstream as you go higher and off to the left. You need to slow down and look in a mirror or watch this video of yourself playing RELLY closely. If one of my students were doing this - they would be encouraged to learn what it feels like, looks like and how it goes NOT moving this way, but relying on air speed tongue arch (in syllables) and some lip muscle use.
That's all rather blunt. It is time to go have a serious talk to tour teacher, or find a better one. The routine you are relying on is clearly not working, mostly due to your state of mind, but also possibly it isn't what you need to right now.
Good luck.
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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stumac Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 Posts: 697 Location: Flinders, Australia
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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+1 to Andy's comments, I see your shoulders rising when you inhale and drop when you start to play, keep your shoulders still and breath deeper relaxed from lower down, the best way I can describe.
Search the forum for the 19/30s exercise, this has helped me immensely in my endurance and range, played softly and in one breath for each note, once mastered descending then try ascending, much more difficult to keep relaxed.
Read John Mohan's last post in lung capacity thread in Fundamentals.
Regards, Stuart. |
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deleted_user_680e93b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:10 am Post subject: |
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Check out this website:
http://www.embouchures.com/embouchurerehabexcerpt.html
Not sure if overuse is the issue, but the way you describe it, it sounds very similar to something that i experienced years ago, this is what put me back.
good luck
tom |
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