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ComeBackTumpet Regular Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2018 Posts: 22
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:12 am Post subject: Why do most classical musicians play from sheet music? |
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Whereas pop/jazz artists (Severinsen, Ferguson, Sandoval, etc.) rarely used sheet music. Yes, you occasionally see a classical trumpet solo played by memory, but most classical artist-sheet music and most pop/jazz artist-no sheet music. |
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Sharkbaitboi Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2018 Posts: 104 Location: Antarctica Symphony
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Just one idea, jazz is way more open to interpretation than classical music. In the case of orchestral music, there are some trumpet parts that can be up to around 14(?) pages? With operas being even more intense. It is an easy way to have notated any special notes the cknductor wants or any other soecial notes that you might forget. |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Reading music is a basic staple of training for classical performers. This makes thousands and thousands of different pieces of musical literature available at their fingertips. While soloists often perform w/o the music in front of them because they have it memorized, they undoubtedly have learned it from the written pages.
Jazz is another thing entirely. Much of what is performed comes from inside the player's head. Big bands will have music on their stands, but soloists will stand and play their solos from memory or by improvising.
There are many famous musicians who do not or did not know how to read music - Tommy Emmanuel (guitar), Scott Hamilton (tenor sax), the Beatles even. In their genres they can operate with no music. But you will not likely find a classically trained performer who cannot read from the ink - it's part of the job. Even blind players learn to read braille music.
Sunday mornings I read music in church, but when I play jazz on Sunday afternoons I don't use charts. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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Albert Castillo Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2006 Posts: 165 Location: Munich
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Because that's what we are paid for. _________________ Albert A. Castillo |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6187
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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veery715 wrote: |
(snip)
There are many famous musicians who do not or did not know how to read music - Tommy Emmanuel (guitar), Scott Hamilton (tenor sax), the Beatles even. In their genres they can operate with no music.
(snap)
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You must have surely meant their drummers. |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Really, this is not correct. Musicians of all types and styles - from jazz to pop to classical to whatever - are expected to be able to both read music and perform from memory as the occasion demands.
Plenty of classical musicians perform from memory all the time. My grandfather, a concert pianist, absolutely mandated that all his students perform exclusively from memory. But of course he could also sightread an accompaniment for a violinist if called upon to do so.
And of course plenty of jazz musicians play while reading charts all the time, from big bands to combos, including me. It's imperative that you're able to sightread a lead sheet and be able to solo over changes you've never seen before at a moment's notice. I just did so on the gig last night.
So I would suggest that you are positing a difference that is not, in fact, there. _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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mafields627 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 Posts: 3776 Location: AL
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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There was also plenty of improvisation during the Baroque era over figured bass. _________________ --Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Why do most classical musicians play from sheet music? |
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ComeBackTumpet wrote: | Whereas pop/jazz artists (Severinsen, Ferguson, Sandoval, etc.) rarely used sheet music. Yes, you occasionally see a classical trumpet solo played by memory, but most classical artist-sheet music and most pop/jazz artist-no sheet music. |
I would kindly suggest your premise is flawed. Opera singers, pianists, soloists with major orchestras, etc. etc. all play frequently from memory. They have a limited repertoire for the concert, often doing tours where they are scheduling one of only a handful of pieces in their repertoire. It is rare to see a touring soloist play a different work each night of their appearances with orchestras. They play or sing the same work each night. Of course, there are sometimes where music is required, just as times when a combo needs a lead sheet or a real book to play a tune.
If you think of most modern jazz performances, the big bands play from music, even tunes that have been in the books for decades. The soloists often know the tunes or are improvising, which means they are not reading the music or the changes for that one section. I know that when I play combos, except for a collection of standards we frequently play (which we can do from memory from repetition), we play from a lead sheet.
The idea that many famous musicians never read music to me is not surprising. They played their own music most of the time, or their own realization of that music, and while they knew what sounded good, others took care of the creation of notation for them. The Bee Gees also never read music from what I have read, and yet I have music for a lot of what they played. Others often created their arrangements. If you listened to a recent interview with Paul McCartney, he talked about having to relearn lyrics and music to his hits, because he had forgotten them over the years. And yet, published sheets exist for many of those songs. It is not uncommon to get a call to tour with a big name performer and have them tell you to lift the licks off the original albums
for performances, because the horn book was created by the cats in the studio, and not written down. In those instances, memorized (or recorded) is all that exists, and even then, there are times when the tune has morphed over time on the road (Garth Brooks third verse to "Friends in Low Places" is a great example) and changed have occurred. Ears and a great attitude are essential then!
Orchestral players play a different repertoire every week. They also often have hundreds of measures of rest between entrances, and attempting to memorize that would be even worse than memorizing musical entrances.
It's not good or bad, just different. And questions like yours, as phrases, place a negative that isn't there nor perceived by anyone who works and who knows the business well.
AL _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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Steve A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1808 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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I think the biggest difference is the time and nature of the time when one isn’t playing. Remembering the notes you play, especially when it’s melodic, isn’t so hard, but remembering if it’s 61 bars and two and a half beats, or 51 bars and two and a half beats of rest can be pretty treacherous in the heat of the moment. Of course, jazz players rest too, but when they have detailed arrangements with similarly precisely notated rests (rather than just sitting out for two choruses), they generally have music, too. (Especially when it’s not their own arrangement.) |
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david johnson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jul 2002 Posts: 1616 Location: arkansas/missouri
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:49 am Post subject: |
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I doubt I could play all of Mahler's symphonies from memory |
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tptptp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1409 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Seems to me an orchestra needs all members of a section to play (as closely as possible) exactly the same style, note length, accents, ties, crescendos, etc. Also, a player should play how the conductor has requested.
Even if a player could remember all the rests and notes, without the reminders on the sheet, I think precision would be nearly impossible.
Jazz groups playing the same sets night after night is a different story, but large groups still need the sheets. _________________ Craig Mitchell |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:19 am Post subject: |
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david johnson wrote: | I doubt I could play all of Mahler's symphonies from memory |
Coward! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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boog Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Posts: 247
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Trying to work on a one-off performance with guitarists, drummers, etc. that are non-readers is a major pain. Slows things down a LOT. If you are going to do studio work, etc. music reading skills are almost a must. Otherwise, you waste a lot of time and money for those that hire you.
Once I did a week long show with Holiday on Ice, and back then, they toured with a conductor-pianist, a drummer, a bass player, and ONE trumpet. The balance of the band was hired locally. I was sitting 2nd in the section, and of course, over several nights, became friends with the touring lead player. The book was about an inch thick, and I was marveling that he could do the entire set from memory. He told me that after a couple of weeks, no problem, playing the set almost every night of course.
LOTS of rock guitarists, keyboardists, drummers, etc. are fluent readers, even though they play the same set night after night. You would be surprised, no doubt, at some of the "name" players that are actually solid, trained musicians. |
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