View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
zumkehr New Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 6 Location: Interlaken, Switzerland
|
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:02 am Post subject: Experience with Bach or Schilke Cornet |
|
|
Hello Cornet player
I have a Bch Cornet Stard. ML u d a Schilke XA1. Do you have experience in the comparison? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
|
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
For what use?
They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2330 Location: Beavercreek, OH
|
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Like trumpets there is a variance of tone from brand to brand and instrument to instrument.
It may depend upon what you're looking for in playability and sound.
I have a ML Bach 184 Shephard's Crook, that I love. I've had it for a long time, and when I started using or needing cornet more often, I opted to have it worked on vs. looking for a new/different cornet. (Thumb sadlle, Silver with gold trim, including the bell, + essentially what Osmun Music calls "blue Printing") Bach's are not cherished in the Brass Band world, maybe the tone is too American. Being a trumpeter that plays mostly other Bach's, I appreciate the comfort level-it feels like a Bach.
From what I understand, one of the few cornet designs that has a "gap"..
I think mine plays wonderfully, with a warm dark sound working very well in Brass Quintets, Cornet rolls in Conert Band, solos, and yes, I've use it in a Brass Band with great success.
I do also play a Schilke Eb Soprano in my local Brass Band. Not the instrument you were asking about, but I'd say that there is something different/unique about the Shilcke sound. The Eb, even with the beryllium bell, can be a little zingy, almost piccolo trumpet-like, at times. Schilke valves are awesome though-I wish all my other instruments valves were like this cornet's. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman
Last edited by zaferis on Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:57 am; edited 3 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Christian K. Peters Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 1531 Location: Eugene, Oregon
|
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:55 am Post subject: experience with bach and schilke cornet |
|
|
Hello and welcome,
I have played the Bach and own an XA1. The Bach plays warmer out of the box and my Schilke can have a warmth with a deeper cup mouthpiece. The Schilke is lighter and a bit brighter in timbre than the Bach. Both are good cornets, I prefer the intonation and feel of the Schilke. _________________ Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
|
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
TKSop wrote: | For what use?
They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them. |
What cornets do you think have the right sound for a British style Brass Band? I think the Besson 928 and Getzen Eterna come to mind, but are there others?
Cheers,
John |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1472 Location: Sweden
|
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
John Mohan wrote: | TKSop wrote: | For what use?
They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them. |
What cornets do you think have the right sound for a British style Brass Band? I think the Besson 928 and Getzen Eterna come to mind, but are there others?
Cheers,
John |
I would like to add the Getzen 3850 (custom)- somewhat darker, but not as easy to play as the Eterna. Valves magnificient. And of course a suitable mpc, deep, preferable V cupish. _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
|
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
John Mohan wrote: | TKSop wrote: | For what use?
They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them. |
What cornets do you think have the right sound for a British style Brass Band? I think the Besson 928 and Getzen Eterna come to mind, but are there others?
Cheers,
John |
Yes the Besson 928 sovereign and 2028 prestige, Yamaha Neo/Xeno, Smith-Watkins, Geneva, the older Boosey & Hawkes sovereign (921) and a few others.
The Getzens eterna plays great but they're not popular with bands here |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
|
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
TKSop wrote: | John Mohan wrote: | TKSop wrote: | For what use?
They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them. |
What cornets do you think have the right sound for a British style Brass Band? I think the Besson 928 and Getzen Eterna come to mind, but are there others?
Cheers,
John |
Yes the Besson 928 sovereign and 2028 prestige, Yamaha Neo/Xeno, Smith-Watkins, Geneva, the older Boosey & Hawkes sovereign (921) and a few others.
The Getzens eterna plays great but they're not popular with bands here |
Hi
I'd agree with the above, and would add the Yamaha Maestro, the predecessor of the Xeno, and maybe the large bore Willson models.
Going back to the original topic, I love my Bach 184ML cornet, and think that it has a very nice tone, but I don't think that it blends very well in a section consisting predominantly of the above cornets.
All the best
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Flip Oakes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2002 Posts: 532 Location: Oceanside, CA USA
|
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
A Post from several years ago..
https://flipoakes.com/wild-thing-short-cornet-review-from-australia/
https://flipoakes.com/cornets/wild-thing-short-cornet/
Flip Oakes
John Mohan wrote: | TKSop wrote: | For what use?
They play great and, to my ears, sound great... But they never quite "fit" with the popular brass band cornets - really depends what you want to play with them. |
What cornets do you think have the right sound for a British style Brass Band? I think the Besson 928 and Getzen Eterna come to mind, but are there others?
Cheers,
John |
_________________ Flip Oakes “Wild Thing Trumpets”
2559 Mottino Dr.
Oceanside, Ca. 92056-3421
760-643-1501
Delivering the distinctive Wild Thing Sound since 1994 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Denny Schreffler Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Tucson
|
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Experience with Bach or Schilke Cornet |
|
|
zumkehr wrote: | Hello Cornet player
I have a Bch Cornet Stard. ML u d a Schilke XA1. Do you have experience in the comparison? |
I much preferred the Schilke XA1 (which I played) to Bach shepherd crooks. Form the two or three pretty poor Bach's that I had played, I assumed that the design was flawed until I played one 15+ years ago that was excellent.
I heard the Amsterdam Staff Band of the Salvation Army (in the USA) about that same time -- they were playing matched Smith-Watkins cornets (lower instruments, except t'bones, were Willson). I talked to some of the cornet players at break or afterwards about their instruments. They loved the S-W's but said that most of the section preferred their personal XA1's which they were not permitted to play in the band.
-Denny |
|
Back to top |
|
|
matthes93401 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 641
|
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
For your money there a better playing choices. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GordonH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2893 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
|
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
In British Brass bands people usually play one of these:
Besson Prestige
Besson Sovereign
Yamaha - Neo or Xeno
Geneva Symphony
You will find other cornets, but 90% of them will be these models.
Getzen had no distribution in the UK for many years and it only has a small presence now. You don't see many of them.
I had a Bach 184ML and struggled to make it work in the brass band setting. A friend had a large bore 181 long model and it was surprisingly better in the brass band. _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
|
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
GordonH wrote: | In British Brass bands people usually play one of these:
Besson Prestige
Besson Sovereign
Yamaha - Neo or Xeno
Geneva Symphony
Hi GordonH
Yes, I completely agree.
You will find other cornets, but 90% of them will be these models.
In my band, we also have a player on a Yamaha Maestro and a Willson Philip Cobb Signature model:
http://www.rosehillinstruments.co.uk/acatalog/Willson-Celebration-460L--large-bore--460L.html
I haven't personally played a Willson cornet, but this player was previously a long time Besson 928 Sovereign player, and without a direct comparison of the two, he sounds the same on the Willson as his previous Sovereign.
Getzen had no distribution in the UK for many years and it only has a small presence now. You don't see many of them.
Yes, I don't see many Getzen cornets either.
I had a Bach 184ML and struggled to make it work in the brass band setting. A friend had a large bore 181 long model and it was surprisingly better in the brass band.
I too found it difficult to make my Bach 184ML work in a brass band setting. It is interesting what you say about a 181L being better in a brass band, but it is probably not surprising. When I play my Bach 184ML with a Bach 3C it sounds pretty much the same as my Bach 37 trumpet with a 3C, just
a little warmer and richer. I have one old recording of me playing orchestral extracts/baroque repertoire, I believe with a Bach 3C, and I myself can't work out whether I am playing my Bach trumpet or cornet, whereas even with a 3C, my Yamaha Xeno cornet still sounds distinctly cornet-like.
Considering how similar the Bach short model cornet and trumpet sound already, and that a Bach long model cornet probably falls between the two in terms of sound, and that I have heard on quite a few separate occasions that the Bach 184L is more British Brass Band-like than the 184ML, I think that it is perfectly reasonable that the Bach 181L is more brass band-like than the Bach 184ML.
Best wishes
Lou |
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Trumpeter42 New Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2010 Posts: 6
|
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't play in a brass band permanently, but I often sub in with various bands in the Toronto region. I also use a cornet frequently in my military band. Previously, I had used an old B&H Regent for the military stuff and rented a Yamaha Xeno when sitting in with a brass band. I came across a Schilke XA1 in the local music store last year, used but in mint condition, for a very nice price. I've been using it ever since. Combined with a Sparx 4 mouthpiece (cornet mouthpieces designed in Toronto and manufactured by GR), it produces a beautiful sound. I adore using it for solo work in the military band setting. I don't seem to have a blending issue with the brass bands I sit in with, usually on solo or rep. They use the typical models highlighted in this thread. _________________ Xeno 8335RGS, Schilke XA1 Cornet
Getzen Eterna 4-valve Flugel, Schilke P5-4 picc
B&S Eb, Sonare C
GR mouthpieces for everything, Sparx (made by GR) on the cornet.
DM Hicks, Master Warrant Officer, 7th Toronto Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillery Band |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|