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Trumpetingbynurture
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 898
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 Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 11:53 pm Post subject: Neill Sanders Mouthpieces |
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Hi All,
I recently bought some pieces off the MarketPlaces including three different Neill Sanders models... 16.5S / 16.5T / 17M
I had a little toot this afternoon, and they're all really great mouthpieces.
I was wondering if anyone can tell me what the "T" stands for? Possibly "Throat"? It seems to have a large throat entrance and throat, but no idea what the numbers would be.
The S and M are obvious, but the T I'm not sure about.
It seems to have an unusual cup shape and also a large throat or throat entrance. The cup has two distinct shapes going on, it first drops down as though it's going to make a deep V cup, and the it hooks quite sharply to form a much flatter cup bottom and then into the throat entrance which appears quite wide. It's a moderately shallow piece.
Anyway, does anyone have any further info about this particular piece? I can't find anything about it anywhere.
Thanks! |
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Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1833
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| The "T" series was - if my memory serves me - a "lead" type mouthpiece. I use the 17M and 17S. I have a Sanders brochure around -I'll try to find it. I believe one difference may be in the "undercut". Check to see if it has less undercut than the 16.5S which has quite a bit. |
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Trumpetingbynurture
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 898
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Andy,
I think you're right, the T definitely has a higher angle as it drops away from the the rim... Higher "alpha angle"? That said, normally I have trouble with pieces with high alphas shutting off on me in the upper register. This piece doesn't seem to do that.
Does your T have a very large looking throat entrance?
It's quite possibly mine has been drilled out by someone... It really looks like a pretty big hole. But it seems to play fine, although I haven't spent a whole heap of time on it just yet.
I love these pieces. One of the most surpsing things about this rim contour is that I can move between the 17 and 16.5 diameters without noticing the big diameter difference. If I pay attention I can tell that one feels a little smaller, but if I had two different diameters with the same cup, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to tell which was which in isolation.
So that's something interesting.
Very nice mouthpieces. Someone needs to start manufacturing these pieces again! |
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Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1833
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I no longer have any "T" models so I'm working from memory. The Hickman rim model from G & W is based on the 17 rim - very similar - just a bit different "fall off" on the outside of the rim. The Hickman 17 medium should be close to the Sanders 17M and the 17 shallow is supposed to be a copy of the Sanders 17S. I'm not man enough to play Dave's "Big Boy" - too big a throat and backbore. Perhaps Dave will chime in here and give you better information on his models.
The reason you can switch back and forth between the 17 and 16.5 is that the rim is an "inverted lay" - the high point is closer to the outside so the inner "bite" does not dig in.
Most custom makers have a scan of the Sanders rim. The 17M and the 16.5S have moderately tight backbores (about like a Warburton 4*) and just a little more gap - close to a Warburton B. It all seems to work together.
Oh - I recently tried an Eric Miyashiro mouthpiece #2. I believe it has a rim similar to the Best Brass 43% - the high point is more towards the outside. These would be worth a try - lots of variety - but pricey.
About once a year I e-mail Kelly mouthpieces and try to convince them to make the Sanders 17M in plastic. Sigh - no luck so far. |
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Trumpetingbynurture
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 898
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Cooper wrote: | | I no longer have any "T" models so I'm working from memory. The Hickman rim model from G & W is based on the 17 rim - very similar - just a bit different "fall off" on the outside of the rim. The Hickman 17 medium should be close to the Sanders 17M and the 17 shallow is supposed to be a copy of the Sanders 17S. I'm not man enough to play Dave's "Big Boy" - too big a throat and backbore. Perhaps Dave will chime in here and give you better information on his models. |
Hey Andy,
Yeah the 17 and the Hickman Fatboy feel around the same diameter to me, but totally different cup etc. I actually really like the Fatboy a *lot*. The sound is just gorgeous. I've bought a few new pieces since I started using the Hickman and I normally A-B them in terms of sound, and every single time so far the Hickman has won hands down for the richness, response and quantity of sound throughout all dynamics.
I've grown into it, but I admit that it's a lot of work above the staff, especially on Bb trumpet which is what I play mostly. So playing those 16th F - high C passages in Haydn Mvt I on Bb is do able, but I have to be fairly fresh for it to be reliable. It's much easier on C trumpet, which I expect is what it was intended to be paired with. I'll grow into it more with time though I think. In the mean time, the 17M can act as a crutch if and when I need one.
I also had the Hickman Medium, but I had mixed feelings about it. It was certainly easier to play and it had some sizzle on the top end if you needed it, but I don't think it paired that well for classical situation with Bb trumpets, especially for multiple tonguing, although this is more likely to be an issue with Me than the mouthpiece. Although maybe it'd work better for Eb trumpet?
Anyway, the 17M though seems to be a good piece for Bb!
The 17T if it's a lead piece, it seems to not really play like one, but I'm pretty convinced that the throat has been opened up on it, but that's totally cool with me because that's probably what I would have wanted anyway! Although the throat looks huge. Like Monette Prana big, I can still seem to get a good middle-of-the-road sound from it.
I have come to love the lay rim a lot. It seems to encourage certain embouchure mechanics which I think are favourable. I don't know about you, but it seems to make it easier to play with a forward, aligned jaw position. With a high point on the inside like most mouthpieces, I find it makes me want to shy away with the lower jaw and play with a more receded jaw position, but that might be because of my crooked teeth, I dunno. I do feel like it has accelerated my progress since switching to it!
Anyway, Thanks for the info. And re your message which I meant to reply to - Sorry, I won't be selling 
Although I think there may still be some listed in the marketplace if you have a look! |
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Theo Hartman
New Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2016
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:25 am Post subject: Neill Sanders contour trumpet mouthpieces |
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| Hello everybody. in case anybody is interested in a Neill Sanders contour trumpetmouthpiece which I understand is quite difficult to purchase I have two willing to sell. Its a 17db and 17s in perfect shape (although second-handed of course). More information? Contact me by email: theohartman@live.com Cheers to you all! Btw I am living in The Netherlands. |
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