Giving In and Admitting Defeat

[plp]

I have always been pretty much anti-Bach, as I have had past negative experiences with them.

I swore I would never own another, in spite of having over 30 horns these days (down from over 100 5 years ago) the only Bach product I own is a Bundy cornet, identical to the one I started on, for sentimental reasons.

So we added two new trumpet players to the band, one played a stock 37, the other a Benge. The Benge guy then about a month later bought a 37, to better blend with the new soloist.

I play a Conn 60-B, and for me is the perfect horn for the music we play, 1950's-1980's cover tunes. Nice deep, rich tone, and the easiest upper register on any trumpet I have ever played. I can pick out high F#'s on 'Polk Salad Annie' and 'You Can Leave Your Hat On' no problem, and have to struggle with them, and the annoying split tones, on anything else, even with the same mouthpiece.

However, does not blend with the other two, when we are playing harmonies, I am much brighter than they are, and on listening to recordings of what we do, regardless of whether I am playing lead, 2nd part, doubling the tenor sax, what have you, stick out.

So a good friend had a 37 restored, and very well done, by Southeastern Music in Huntsville, did a great job. He has lent it to me to play test, and in hopes I will buy it from him.

I hate it.

Not that it is a bad trumpet, far from it. Southeastern did a remarkable job restoring it, rebuilt the valves, did a bunch of dent work and then sent it to Anderson for replating, looks and plays like a new trumpet.

However, is a Bach.

It has that built in, very distinguishable, Bach sound.

I played it last week on a gig, and got a lot of compliments from the other band members, about how there was something different in our sound, and it really worked.

So now, I am conflicted, do I shell out the 1100 bucks for this horn just to fit in, or do I stick to my guns, and just play the 60-B.

I listened to several cell phone recordings, and yes, we did blend better with the Bach, no surprise there, as all 3 of us were playing the same make and model.
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Since all other motives—fame, money, power, even honor—are thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it.” Wayne Booth

[Jon Arnold]

Have you tried a Bach Commercial?

[plp]

[Dayton]

[Speed]

I'm guessing it's the resistance of the Bach that you don't like. Is that correct?

If so, there are a couple of things that might help. One is a "C" shaped tuning slide. The other is switching to a 25-0 or even a 43 leadpipe.

I have a Bach 19037. I put the "C" shaped tuning slide on it, and it opened it up a bit. I later put a 25-0i leadpipe on it. It opened it up a little more, but not as much as I hoped.

It is not as open as, say, a Bach Commercial Trumpet, but both those changes make it more to my liking. It definitely blends with other Strads when that's my goal.

I felt like the biggest improvement was the "C" shaped tuning slide. Plus from a cost standpoint, you don't have to pay somebody to install it, as is the case with the 25-0 leadpipe.

[giantsteps]

I equate these things monetarily.

Are you making enough bread with the band to justify spending $1100 on a horn you will use for just this gig?

Can you change your approach on the Conn? Maybe a cup size deeper and throw a wool blanket over the bell of your Conn to give it that "Bach Opacity?"

I have a Bach 37 which was/is my main horn for at least 2 decades. Bought an inexpensive Olds Special a couple of years back to see if an appreciable amount of time on another horn would change my perspective on sound/response.

The Olds feels so clear and responsive compared to my old Bach. It really jumps and can light up and tack notes to the back wall when pushed. The Bach is MUCH more work in a "bright/fat" setting. I use it for the legit stuff and use the Olds for more "commercial" things.

Good luck with your decision.
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Bb: mt. vernon bach ML 37
Flugelhorn: Triebert Moderne

[starkadder]

Give in and bury your pride. It's not much money, and the ears have spoken. Think of it as an intervention.

[yourbrass]

I hear your pain.

You mention the easy upper register of the Conn - save it for that, when you really need it. The blend can come from the Bach on other gigs.

The Bach orthodoxy is hard to deal with, but there we are. I had one 37 I rebuilt that I'm really sorry I sold, but other than that...
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"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

With 30 horns, don't you have some other choices beyond the Conn? Maybe even, who knows?, the bundy Do the other Bachs sound good to you, or would you just be going along with them? It seems to me there are so many Bach clones and competitors in the world, you should be able to play a trumpet you enjoy.

[Brassnose]

As suggested above you could think about a 43 leadpipe or any of the tune-ups from M/K Drawing. I have a stock Bach 43GH where I had a 43 leadpipe put on a few years ago. Plays MUCH nicer and much more open than with the stock leadpipe.

I do agree with you, however, that I do absolutely not like the 37 variety but maybe a 43 would still blend better with the 37 varieties than your Conn?
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[boog]

If you just need a 180/37 occasionally, which is the case with me, you are not looking hard enough. Just in the last couple of years 2 have cropped up for sale among my circle of friends and acquaintances for under 500 bucks. Now, neither of these 2 were beauty queens, but they played acceptably well and they <<<were>>> Bach.

I don't like 'em either. I like Conn and Courtois wide-wrap horns, but you need one in your stable just for the reasons you stated above. I traded a mint 70's Benge last fall for a 3 year old Strad, just to have one available. It really plays quite well and it is even a "looker".

FWIW, I seem to pick up my Connstellations for most of my playing, but you occasionally need that "Bach sound" to fit in with a section. Happened to me just this past fall concert season...

By the way, Southeastern really does quality work. Years ago George restored an ancient Pan American tenor horn for me that was a wall hanger. Was amazing work, like new when I got it back.

[deleted_user_48e5f31]

Deleted by dfcoleman

[Richard III]

I had this recently: Director says he needs more from our section. I plug in a different mouthpiece and director likes it. However, section mates don't like it because it doesn't blend well with their sound. Hmmmmm. Maybe you aren't the one that needs changing? Bang. Done. All those Bach guys need to get on board. Oh yea!!
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[BGinNJ]

I certainly wouldn't suggest shelling out 1100 bucks for a horn you don't like just to "fit in". Taking one for the team is playing a song or a part you don't like, not spending money to play an instrument you don't.

You could try other Bach models, but the other standard ones (43, 72) are not so hugely different that you would stick out in a section of 37's. A lightweight, reverse leadpipe model might work, and be cheaper than a Commercial.

[LittleRusty]

If you decide to go with the 37 I would look for a less expensive one. Unless you have the spare cash.

But it were me I would also try other models of Bach or Bach clones to see if they would blend.

[trickg]

I went through a thing in the last year or so where I was kind of chasing gear toward the idea of a certain sound concept. I ended up with a ML37 Strad with a Blackburn leadpipe. This was in an effort to get into some gear that was going to blend a bit better, specifically blending with a friend of mine I gig with in a quintet occasionally. Unfortunately I was always more accurate on my Jupiter 1600i, even after going the extra mile to mod a Strad for better playing characteristics.

Ultimately two things happened. One was that I found a mouthpiece that helped me to blend a bit better on my 1600i when I was doing legit work with other trumpet players - I picked up a secondhand ACB 3B, which darkens the sound up enough to work pretty well.

The other thing that happened is that I came to the realization that in the grand scheme of things, particularly for where I play and who I play for, it doesn't really matter that much.

Most people don't know or notice the finer points of a trumpeter's sound, nor do they think about how the general blend is between players. For them, a trumpet is a trumpet - they all sound trumpet-y, and that's about as much as they think about it. A music director might notice, but even if they do, they might not be able to even define what it is they are noticing. Otherwise, the only other people who might notice and care are going to be other trumpet players.

If you are in a top-tier ensemble and you make most of your money from the horn, by all means, take the time to find the right tool for that job, because then it might actually matter. Otherwise, if you're like the vast majority of us who play out and make a smattering of money over the course of a year gigging here and there, play the horn that makes you happy. It just doesn't matter that much.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello all,
I never did care for the 37's either. I did play a couple of lacquer 37's that did want to change my mind. The silver plated, not so much. You might try a reverse leadpipe Bach 37. You might like it.
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Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[LaTrompeta]

I have an easy solution:

Are you a pro?
YES ------------------> Play what keeps your job.

NO ------------------> Play what makes you happy.


Simple!
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[Crazy Finn]

Never give in.

I've never owned a Bach 37, and I probably never will. I've never played a Bach 37 that I've wanted to buy or own (at least one that was for sale).

I don't hate Bachs. I've played both 43's and 72's that I like. I own a Bach 184 cornet and played another for many years that played great.

Part of blending is the horn, but a generous portion of it is the mouthpiece and especially the player. Maybe your Conn won't quite blend as well, but surely there is some horn that plays well and you don't hate that blends pretty well with the others with - maybe in conjunction with a the right mouthpiece. Maybe it's a horn you already own. Use the Conn for lead and the other for section work.

I've played in sections of Bachs most of my life. For most of it, I've had a Yamaha, I've also played my old Benge and Radial. They blend great have the benefit of also playing and sounding great.

Don't apologize for liking horns that have a great sound palate and actually play and respond nicely.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn

[Brad361]