SC and Classical gigs? Also, interesting observation.

[ljazztrm]

I posted this on the SC forum and thought I would post it here as well:

Has anyone been using the SC style of articulation on classical gigs? I ask this because I had and have some classical gigs coming up that are more high profile type gigs...(usually my classical playing is limited to weddings and the like where there is a little more room for experimentation). I have to switch back to my normal type of articulation for these gigs since A) I haven't been working with the SC for too long in gigging situations and B) I feel a little more performance anxiety doing a more high profile classical gig as I do much less of this type of work. It is my feeling that it could be possible to smooth out the articulation enough to do this though with practice...I have been able to do it for jazz playing...but I was wondering if there were any players out there on this board who do a lot of classical work and use SC.

My interesting observation is that when I go back to my traditional style of articulation I notice that my overall playing is somewhat stronger....I wonder if this is due to 'resting' on the more traditional embouchure set...or, is it a by-product of building up the tongue through the use of the SC articulation. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks and all the best, Lex.

p.s.-On classical work I have been using Mark Curry's 8.5BC. He calls this piece his Chicago model...it has the bach 'C' rim (although I think his is more comfortable) a Bach 'B' cup with a 24 throat and 24 Bach style Backbore.

[HJ]

Interesting.

I am a dedicated BE student, and as you probably know, BE is an indirect method. When I learned about TCE in the German Callet clinic, Jerry himself pointed out the use of TCE as an indirect development tool (not his words). He told me to tongue TCE-wise for an hour a day and for the rest do whatever felt right (his words!). This was familiar, because that is what I do with all Jeffs exercises as well.

I have been doing TCE and spitbuzzing for about three months now. About 30 to 40 minutes a day. I try to be very precise with the information I got from Jerry, and although it is pretty hard, I succeed in tonguing this way.
On a gig I don't care at all how I do it, well, not completely true, I try to keep my tongue forward, but if I am not capable of doing that during the gig I don't mind and tongue mostly against my top lip, so through the teeth.
The nice thing is that my tonguing has gotten much stronger, better and focused by doing TCE for half an hour a day. I cannot do it all day long, or on a gig, but my chops and tongue are developing. I don't know where I'll end, or what it looks like if my tongue is really strong and the position is automated, and I don't care too much. With BE this is the way it works, and with TCE for me it works this way too. So, I am not surprised that when you play on 'classical' chops, you feel stronger, although you are not tonguing fully TCE-wise. Indirectly you are teaching your whole setup to be more efficient.


Bert

[Bruce Lee]

Lex,

I think that what you're talking about is more "conceptual", in terms of style. As a Jazz/Commercial musician, you tend to call upon the musical nuances that you can achieve to "sing your song". Over-articulation in Jazz will kill the style, as much as adherence to even eigth notes, or worse yet... the dotted eighth and sixteenth... if it's more of a swing/bop style. ..."Thank you there, Boys! That was a real toe-tapper!".... Lawrence Welk"

In Classical music, there is a need to articulate evenly, and a more precise form of rhythmical adherence is also required. I like to practice out of the Remington Trombone Warm-up book, to gain the focus needed for classical playing. It's part of my roots, and it is what works for me.

Whether it's SC/TCE or BE, these are the "tools"/mechanics (in addition to the "tools"/equipment used) that you're using to achieve the musical goals. Musical memory, and muscle memory will tend to take you back to a traditional embouchure if you haven't become firmly rooted in your new embouchure. Eventually, you will make the musical nuances part of the new embouchure, and your "bag of tricks" will be over-flowing with abilities far beyond that of mortal men/women!

Best always,
Bruce

[HJ]

Hi Bruce,

That is an interesting observation. Muscle memory and musical memory being connected to the embouchure and IMO to each other as well. Well, it is of course obvious that muscle memory is part of your embouchure. But this muscle memory is very much related to musical memory as well. I am doing BE for one and a half year and added some TCE three months ago. With the techniques I learned this way I can play up to DHC every day (not ready for performance, but it is there). I played my first lead gig (doubling with another trumpet player) in many, many years, so you could say I am going strong. But whenever I try to play some classical pieces, Charlier, Haydn, Hindemith or whatever, I still cannot do it properly. It's like my chops memorized the feeling from way back when I was struggling on a Farkas embouchure to play these pieces. It is getting better, but the way my chops feel when playing classical comes from before the BE and TCE way of playing. I wonder if other people have the same feeling. The 'new' music (lead trumpetparts) is pretty easy to play with the new setup, but the 'old' music does present the same (more or less) problems you always had.

And of course I agree that this has to do with the fact that the new technique is still under construction, so to speak, so I do not worry.

Thanks for a new insight,

Bert

[HJ]

Hi Bruce,

That is an interesting observation. Muscle memory and musical memory being connected to the embouchure and IMO to each other as well. Well, it is of course obvious that muscle memory is part of your embouchure. But this muscle memory is very much related to musical memory as well. I am doing BE for one and a half year and added some TCE three months ago. With the techniques I learned this way I can play up to DHC every day (not ready for performance, but it is there). I played my first lead gig (doubling with another trumpet player) in many, many years, so you could say I am going strong. But whenever I try to play some classical pieces, Charlier, Haydn, Hindemith or whatever, I still cannot do it properly. It's like my chops memorized the feeling from way back when I was struggling on a Farkas embouchure to play these pieces. It is getting better, but the way my chops feel when playing classical comes from before the BE and TCE way of playing. I wonder if other people have the same feeling. The 'new' music (lead trumpetparts) is pretty easy to play with the new setup, but the 'old' music does present the same (more or less) problems you always had.

And of course I agree that this has to do with the fact that the new technique is still under construction, so to speak, so I do not worry.

Thanks for a new insight,

Bert

[Bruce Lee]

Hi, Bert!

Thanks for your kind words! I'm glad to be able to be able to share my experiences with other trumpet players. The internet is such a great tool... so much for that big "pond". You, OJ, and the rest of us, are bridging that gap very nicely!

I think that it's very important to be able to demonstrate techniques to our students, while teaching. So many people put down their instrument, once they have that piece of paper saying that they have earned a degree. I have a few trombone students that I teach. The "legato tongue" required on a non-valved instrument presents a challenge to the valved instrument player. If I was to demonstrate exercises properly, I needed to be able to learn to legato tongue just like a trombone player. It was a real challenge, and I think that it really has helped me with my own playing/teaching.

While re-learning Concertos, Solos, Orchestral Excerpts, and Etudes, with a new technique is challenging, I think that we stand to gain a great deal by doing just that. The "finesse" part of the embouchure, or technique is the last thing to develop, like any small motor-skill. With the trumpet, it's more of a "micro motor-skill".

We had a saying in teaching skiing.... "If you're not turning, you're not learning!". I think that applies here, very nicely! We are all perpetual students of the trumpet!

Best always,
Bruce
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