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Mouthpiece suggestion with for people with fat lips


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Robert P
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece suggestion with for people with fat lips Reply with quote

BrightonY125 wrote:
Hello everyone! I found out that I have fat lips, so I need a narrow rimmed mouthpiece right?

I don't think there's a dependable guideline. You have to try various mp's and see what works.

I have fairly full lips and my mp of choice has changed over the years largely dependent on the changing mechanics of my playing. I used a Jet-Tone T1A for years having once upon a time found it to be very comfortable. However the mechanics of how I play have changed a lot and now I'm using a Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead which is very different than the T1A. I don't even really like the way the T1A feels anymore and find it impedes me. Oddly I found the Bobby Shew Lead the same way I found the Jet-Tone, stumbled on it by complete happenstance.
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BrightonY125
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstdenis wrote:

If you're comfortable on a 3C, why not just stick with that?

Sorry if I wasn’t clear at all. I tried another mouthpiece recently with a thinner rim, and now the 3C feels like junk to me, so I’m in the market for a thin rim mouthpiece.
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JazzFluegel
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 generally with all those who state it is not necessarily the body of the lip's vermillions (the part that shows in the mirror without smiling nor frowning if that is what you are calling "fat lips") that should dictate mouthpiece selection. Also generally, you should not be playing on this red inner part of your lips anyway as: "...your facial muscles will be pushing forward in order to do that. ... players who play from the red inner part of the lips have trouble playing extremely high very well. ... Think in terms of the syllable "M", and rolling the lips (chops) in. The goal is to have the upper edge of the top lip within the inside edge of the mothpiece--right at the point the white begins at the top lip." from: The Buzzzzone, The Art of Playing Efficiently and Comfortably, Joseph W. Marcinkiewicz. That said, the most comfortable relatively thin rimmed mouthpieces I have tried are the Giddings Webster stainless steel.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
BrightonY125 wrote:
I disagree. I have found better results on narrower rims than on my regular Bach 3C and 1 1/4 C.


I'm not sure what or who you are disagreeing with, but your experience represents one and only one data point. That's about as anecdotal as one can get.

The fact is, historically there is no correlation between lip size and mouthpiece size in terms of rim thickness, cup diameter or cup depth. I advise you stick with your 3C (the mouthpiece you stated you are already comfortable with) and practice your trumpet. You'll find as you get good enough, you'll be able to make pretty much any mouthpiece work okay. When it comes to mouthpiece selection, what we should be dealing with is a matter of fine-tuning. Too many players rely on an endless search for the mouthpiece that will do more than fine-tune their playing. That mouthpiece does not exist.

Now, all that said... If you have found that you like mouthpieces with thinner rims better than the 3C you wrote you are comfortable with, then I suggest you buy a Kanstul CG3 mouthpiece. It is based on the Bach 3C but has a slightly thinner rim. Here's scan comparing a Bach 3C to a Kanstul CG3:


https://i.postimg.cc/L5HWTrBx/Bach-3-C-red-vs-Kanstul-CG3-green.jpg
Bach 3C (red) versus Kanstul CG3 (green)

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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Brad
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JazzFluegel wrote:
Also generally, you should not be playing on this red inner part of your lips anyway...

What do you mean by "playing on" the vermilion?

I submit that it's not possible to play without the vermilion in contact with the mp and engaged in buzzing.

Quote:
...The goal is to have the upper edge of the top lip within the inside edge of the mothpiece--right at the point the white begins at the top lip.

Have to disagree with this - I saw this in some method book years ago. While this works for people with thin upper lips shaped a particular way, it doesn't work for someone like me and I'm sure others. In my case the inner rim ring is close to the edge of the vermilion but trying to force it higher doesn't work.

I do believe that people with thin upper lips have an advantage because of where the mouthpiece sits in relation to the vermilion but saying everyone should play that way is trying to force the proverbial square peg.
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brassmusician
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having played a significant variety of different mouthpieces over the years and observing my success, consistency , endurance, flexibility etc, I have arrived at a mouthpiece type, which for me, agrees with what Phyllis Stork's mouthpiece/lip shape theories suggest for my lip type (thicker than usual with cupid's bow). It doesn't mean I am playing a stork mouthpiece and it doesn't mean that I think her approach is going to hold true for everybody. But I would not dismiss her approach out of hand, it may provide a useful guide for some, even if in the end it comes really comes down to 'what works' rather than any particular theory.
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Al Innella
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give Warburton a call. Their anchor grip tops are thinner than their standard tops. They come in different ID's from large to small with different cup shapes and depths, from extra shallow to extra deep, all with a very large selection of different back bores.
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SMrtn
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have fat lips, and bought a Bach 3CW...the W stands for 'wide'. It's not a bad piece, but it's a little brighter than the standard 3C by Bach.
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The adjective "fat" or "fleshy" in relation to lip/embouchure doesn't tell us anything. There are trumpet players with large lips using all kinds of different mouthpieces. Different rims and contours. As well as all sorts of different sized cup depths and inner rim dimensions.

While I didn't read all of the responses to the O/P the ones which I did read only seemed to rehash conventional "wisdom". From.my experience? I have found that at least half of all ideas known as conventional "wisdom" hav no value at all. Just because an idea appears reasonable on the surface doesn't give it legitimacy.

At one time a lot of brass instrument teachers insisted that their large lipped students take up tuba. Because they felt that the smaller mouthpiece on the trumpet would get in the way of these fleshy lips. However some of our greatest trumpet players have quite big lips. As well as some have very thin lips!

That said? There probably are some defineable characteristics to a superior trumpet embouchure. In fact I know of these myself. Mostly they relate to the chops having a very vibrant, elastic condition. That and the placement of jaw, teeth and lips does not block the tone from resonating above high C. However these conditions can occur just as easily on any sized pair of lips.

So let us learn to identify those pieces of conventional wisdom which are unscientific and not based in anything more than attractive initial assumptions. Then? Strike these ideas from the book forever. Learning the trumpet or any musical instrument can be demanding enough as it is. Even without the host of wholly erroneous assumptions that make up the majority of ideas contained in conventional "wisdom".
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have big lips. I don't respond well to mouthpieces smaller than a 3C. The exception to this is the MF JetTone, which for some reason I can play without difficulty, but its quite a deep mouthpiece. Having said that I can play the full range on a big mouthpiece. I have tended to play mouthpieces in the Bach 1, 1.5C and 1C size areas. I also have a set of smaller 3C type mouthpieces that I use for some purposes.

I also find I need a bit of bite to help the lips start vibrating, so I go for medium to narrow rims.
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