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LowerSlower Regular Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 32 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:04 pm Post subject: Large bore or small bore? |
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Curious as to pluses & minuses of large bore vs. small bore horns.
I play a Schilke S32 with a Monette BL mouthpiece.
While that horn was in the shop recently, I played my old Selmer K Modified w/ the same mouthpiece.
The Selmer bore must be quite a bit larger, as the mouthpiece went in a lot farther.
I play mostly jazz, blues, salsa, swing & reggae. Had a couple classical church gigs, and backed up a chorus this year.
I always thought of the K Mod as more of a "classical" sounding horn. Both play great, just wondered about some personal preferences out there. _________________ "Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny"
Frank Zappa, 1974 |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8336 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Large bore or small bore? |
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LowerSlower wrote: | Curious as to pluses & minuses of large bore vs. small bore horns.
I play a Schilke S32 with a Monette BL mouthpiece.
While that horn was in the shop recently, I played my old Selmer K Modified w/ the same mouthpiece.
The Selmer bore must be quite a bit larger, as the mouthpiece went in a lot farther.
I play mostly jazz, blues, salsa, swing & reggae. Had a couple classical church gigs, and backed up a chorus this year.
I always thought of the K Mod as more of a "classical" sounding horn. Both play great, just wondered about some personal preferences out there. |
How far the mouthpiece fits in the receiver has nothing to do with the size of the bore. All that means is the receiver is larger on the Selmer (Selmers do have larger receivers, maybe Courtois as well?).
The receiver essentially connects the mouthpiece to the leadpipe (or mouthpipe according to some). What makes an instrument a larger or small bore is the rest of the tubing in the horn, not the receiver. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Large bore or small bore? |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | LowerSlower wrote: | Curious as to pluses & minuses of large bore vs. small bore horns.
I play a Schilke S32 with a Monette BL mouthpiece.
While that horn was in the shop recently, I played my old Selmer K Modified w/ the same mouthpiece.
The Selmer bore must be quite a bit larger, as the mouthpiece went in a lot farther.
I play mostly jazz, blues, salsa, swing & reggae. Had a couple classical church gigs, and backed up a chorus this year.
I always thought of the K Mod as more of a "classical" sounding horn. Both play great, just wondered about some personal preferences out there. |
How far the mouthpiece fits in the receiver has nothing to do with the size of the bore. All that means is the receiver is larger on the Selmer (Selmers do have larger receivers, maybe Courtois as well?).
The receiver essentially connects the mouthpiece to the leadpipe (or mouthpipe according to some). What makes an instrument a larger or small bore is the rest of the tubing in the horn, not the receiver. |
And I think this is correct, bore size is measured at the second valve slide. As C.F. said, it has nothing to do with the mouthpiece receiver, which may in fact be worn and stretched on your Selmer.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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pinstriper Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2013 Posts: 340 Location: Portlandia, OR
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Large bore or small bore? |
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Brad361 wrote: | Crazy Finn wrote: | LowerSlower wrote: | Curious as to pluses & minuses of large bore vs. small bore horns.
I play a Schilke S32 with a Monette BL mouthpiece.
While that horn was in the shop recently, I played my old Selmer K Modified w/ the same mouthpiece.
The Selmer bore must be quite a bit larger, as the mouthpiece went in a lot farther.
I play mostly jazz, blues, salsa, swing & reggae. Had a couple classical church gigs, and backed up a chorus this year.
I always thought of the K Mod as more of a "classical" sounding horn. Both play great, just wondered about some personal preferences out there. |
How far the mouthpiece fits in the receiver has nothing to do with the size of the bore. All that means is the receiver is larger on the Selmer (Selmers do have larger receivers, maybe Courtois as well?).
The receiver essentially connects the mouthpiece to the leadpipe (or mouthpipe according to some). What makes an instrument a larger or small bore is the rest of the tubing in the horn, not the receiver. |
And I think this is correct, bore size is measured at the second valve slide. As C.F. said, it has nothing to do with the mouthpiece receiver, which may in fact be worn and stretched on your Selmer.
Brad |
Or someone could have used a reamer on the receiver to allow their mouthpiece to seat further and reduce gap -> more likely than wear and "stretching". _________________ ~'77 DEG Dynasty II Soprano Bugle in G
'13 Chinese POS "Hawk" branded Flugel
'59 Olds Ambassador Cornet
'51 Olds Super
'69 Olds Studio
'40 Olds Special Cornet, Military Issued |
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connicalman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 1668 Location: West Medford, MA
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Others have commented on bore, some mentioned gap. Perhaps the different feeling you perceive is due to gap. There are pages and threads dedicated to gap. Look there for lots of info. Meanwhile, try some thin tape (plumber's tape or scotch) on your mouthpiece and see if that brings your experience closer to expectations.
Keep a notebook of how YOU experience changes. Be prepared to give up assumptions. Enjoy the ride. _________________ kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A... |
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Rompson Regular Member
Joined: 04 May 2013 Posts: 86
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Or the Selmer may simply have a longer receiver, and the gap may be completely unaffected. The mouthpiece may not insert any farther, the receiver may just go further up the mouthpiece shank. Any differences in the trumpets will be due to a combination of factors, not just bore or gap. |
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oliver king Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Posts: 1742
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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Rompson wrote: | Or the Selmer may simply have a longer receiver, and the gap may be completely unaffected. The mouthpiece may not insert any farther, the receiver may just go further up the mouthpiece shank. Any differences in the trumpets will be due to a combination of factors, not just bore or gap. |
THIS. I own a large bore Bel Canto (.464) and two medium large bore (.459 and .460) horns. There's little basis for comparison because there are so many other factors at play. They were all made by the same guy and they're all perfect for what I use them for (expressing and projecting an idea). Everything else is something else. I don't consider its bore while I'm playing it. _________________ LB Bel Canto #59
Holton B47
Frankenhorn projects 1-5
Adams F1
Olds Super Tenor Trombone
Alesis QS8
B2MS3, B2GS3, |
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dershem Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1887 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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oliver king wrote: | Rompson wrote: | Or the Selmer may simply have a longer receiver, and the gap may be completely unaffected. The mouthpiece may not insert any farther, the receiver may just go further up the mouthpiece shank. Any differences in the trumpets will be due to a combination of factors, not just bore or gap. |
THIS. I own a large bore Bel Canto (.464) and two medium large bore (.459 and .460) horns. There's little basis for comparison because there are so many other factors at play. They were all made by the same guy and they're all perfect for what I use them for (expressing and projecting an idea). Everything else is something else. I don't consider its bore while I'm playing it. |
You have three of Dick's horns? You're a lucky man! _________________ BKA! Mic Gillette was my mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marc. mouthpieces. |
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oliver king Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Posts: 1742
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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dershem wrote: | oliver king wrote: | Rompson wrote: | Or the Selmer may simply have a longer receiver, and the gap may be completely unaffected. The mouthpiece may not insert any farther, the receiver may just go further up the mouthpiece shank. Any differences in the trumpets will be due to a combination of factors, not just bore or gap. |
THIS. I own a large bore Bel Canto (.464) and two medium large bore (.459 and .460) horns. There's little basis for comparison because there are so many other factors at play. They were all made by the same guy and they're all perfect for what I use them for (expressing and projecting an idea). Everything else is something else. I don't consider its bore while I'm playing it. |
You have three of Dick's horns? You're a lucky man! |
Yeah I think about that while I'm playing. He's the coolest AND he makes a great horn. Bryan Morgan at Dick's shop is the guy to see. _________________ LB Bel Canto #59
Holton B47
Frankenhorn projects 1-5
Adams F1
Olds Super Tenor Trombone
Alesis QS8
B2MS3, B2GS3, |
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LowerSlower Regular Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 32 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:33 am Post subject: A & G Music Oakland CA |
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I agrees. Dick's shop was recommended to me when I moved to the Bay Area 12 years ago.
They just repaired & overhauled my Schilke S32, and it looks like a brand new. THE BEST shop for brass repair / overhaul shop, for sure. _________________ "Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny"
Frank Zappa, 1974 |
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