Does anyone NOT like Amados?

the chief · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:47 am Post subject:

I don't really mind them too much, but I prefer standards anyday. They're easier and more comfortable to use.

Apparently, the Amado's allow air to flow through the horn better because you don't need to create a pit in the tubing, like you do with the standards.

Have you ever noticed a difference between the two types of waterkeys in playing or sound?

dannystone10 · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Mar 2002 Posts: 222

I haven't ever played Amado water keys and preferred them - but most of the instruments I have played with them have not been pro instruments (or if they were, they didn't seem it!). The best set up I have encountered is on my Olds Super, with the 'Trombone type' water key on the main slide - Makes for very comfy and rapid emptying!!!

bgwbold · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:33 am Post subject:

Maybe it is just something in my saliva, but amados tend to stick on me. My latest preference is lever keys with the black neoprene shaped stopper instead of the cork. In 40 plus years of playing, I have only had one lever key spring break on me. I know how to keep the amados lubed and working, but from the sheer standpoint of maintenance, I prefer the lever keys. Personally I cannot tell that it makes much of a difference in the sound of feel of a horn which one I use. So if I am ordering something, I specify lever keys and once in a great while have had the amados changed out for repair of 50 dollars or less.

I am not totally nuts when it comes to amados, as I have them on my C and an old Getzen because I got them used and they had amados when I bought the horns.

Mike

elbobogrande · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:31 am Post subject:

The thing I wish were a little different on my Kanstul trumpets is that the Amado waterkeys don't drain as fast a lever-type key does. That said, I won't switch because it's not very impractical to simply empty my slides more frequently, and I really don't want to "risk" changing the feel of my horn. I seriously doubt it would change much, but just in case, I'll keep it as it is.
John
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OldKid · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Posts: 135

My Getzen cornet has them and I always end up pulling the main tuning slide to get all the water out. They just don't work as well as the old standard type.
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trickg · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:50 am Post subject:

I'm not a big fan of the Amado water keys either. I suppose that from an air flow perspective, they are probably much better than the regular type, but I just don't think they do as good of a job of releasing the water. I have them on my Kanstul flugel and one day I'm going to have my buddy Craig change them out with regular (probably Yamaha) water keys.
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Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

My Getzen cornet DOES have them (Amados) and they are absolutely the fastest draining, slickest water keys I've had! The one on the leadpipe bow especially (it seems to have an extended "nipple"...never seen one like it), drains like a toilet set to "Emergency Flush". I don't know if it was ever drilled out or not but the water sure leaves "all at once".

The Amados on my Jupiter flugel, however, "suck". The lever key on the Schilke is 'OK'....nothing to rave about though. So I guess there are good ones and "not so good" ones, just like everything else in life.

daver · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:31 am Post subject:

I never cared for the Amado system. They alway stuck for me, and a peper clip became standard equipment.

dave
missouri

bent trumpet · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:49 am Post subject:

I do not like Amado water keys. The water does not exit fast enough, and they consistantly stick. I have tried various lubricants, and nothing seems to work well for very long. Any horn I decide to keep, I will have them changed to levers. I notice no difference in the sound of a horn after the change to levers is made.

MrVenturi · Regular Member Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 84

I offer both styles of waterkeys on my trumpets,lever and amado. Often times when you are having problems with getting the water out of the Amados it is because you are blowing on the trumpet to hard when pressing the button. You end up blowing the water right past the hole. If you simply push the key and give it a gentle puff you will be amazed how much water just falls out! It comes down to personal prefrence but I like the Amado keys. As far as them sticking..once in awile just put a drop of oil on them or even easier put a squirt of oil down you leadpipe (clean) put your mouthpiece back in and blow it right through the trumpet and emty out both keys. It is best to allow for the oil to coat as much of the inside of your trumpet as possible.
R.Lawler

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

On my French Besson Classic/Najoom, I have a standard water key on the main tuning slide and an Amado on the third valve slide.

I was told that this was a Dennis Najoom concept or idea, as he had some input into the design of this horn...

I don't really have a preference for either...

_dcstep · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:57 am Post subject:

Roy's point should be payed close attention to. Many people blow like they're trying to blow out 50 candles on a birthday cake when a puff will do. There was a particularly annoying gent in one community band that insisted on clearing his horn as if he were blowing a big load of snot out of his nose. Really ugly sound and he did it several times per concert. He was a graduate of the U of Mich during the Revelle years. You'd think that he'd have had his hair parted by a conducter's baton early on, but there he was.

Also, pay attention to the angle of the horn in relation to the ground. The optimum angle will vary from horn to horn because the placement of the water key will vary by builder as to where it's placed on the crook.

Dave
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the chief · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:28 am Post subject:

"Many people blow like they're trying to blow out 50 candles on a birthday cake when a puff will do"

That's because we've all spent years and years being taught to "blow hard"!
;p

OCTA-C · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:06 pm Post subject:

The Amados are starting to get on my nerves! They came as an option on my Bach. I've had them spun and loosened several times from sticking and have had the springs changed. They now move great and smooth but tend to not empty the water efficiently. I'm looking more and more towards those Saturn water keys by Wedgwood. Looks like a great design. Or else I'll just go back to the lever type......sigh!
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BeboppinFool · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:30 pm Post subject:

Count me among those who don't like Amado water keys.

My Mendez has them, obviously a later modification, and I have trouble with them . . . they don't get the job done very well, in my opinion.

My Getzen bass trumpet came with 4 of them, and I had them all removed and standard ones put in their place. Much better results.

Rich
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Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1888

Sometimes the Amados can get dirty, and prevent any water from coming out of the horn. They will still work, but if they are clogged, then you have to take them apart and clean them. Those of you that say that they dont't work should take out the tuning crook, stop one end with a finger, and blow through the other end. If no air comes out of the Amado, then it's clogged.

ML52K · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:53 pm Post subject:

I have read about Saturn water keys in prior forums, and have even gone to Wedgewood's web page. No picture. Anyone have a picture of what one of these babies looks like?

Mikester · Veteran Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 374

My current horns have Armado. I do not like them. They stick, click, and occasionally spray on your hands. Their advantage of less interruption to the air flow, also allows "water" to flow past the hole when blowing into the horn. Traditional lever water-keys have a built-in "bucket" to hold some "water" until opened.

My Z-horn had lever with a "nipple" filling the "bucket. Those worked pretty good.

I prefer the lever.

OCTA-C · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:48 pm Post subject:

Here's a picture: http://www.cornetconnection.com/swk.htm
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TimBrown · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:12 pm Post subject:

My Kanstul has amados. And yes, I have problems with them. Nearly every time I have to flip my flugel around like a french horn to get the water out. On the first valve slide I have to pull the slide off.

Tim
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