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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2063 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:46 pm Post subject: Monette B mouthpiece in a C trumpet |
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Sorry if my search has not turned up what I was looking for and am I re-asking a question answered before. So I have my "new" 1970s Getzen Eterna C, which is an awesome horn. I use it for small ensemble playing.
On a whim I plugged in a Monette B6 I still have lying around from my "need to play Monette as well" days. The sound was great, response and articulation much less so. Pretty sluggish and intonation was strange as well.
Is this a general phenomenon that you should really use Monette C pieces on C trumpets to get something playable?
My regular mp is a Klier USA 5C for both Bb and C. Essentially a copy of a Bach Mt. Vernon, I am told. Works great on both horns. No problems switching between Bb and C here. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:55 am Post subject: |
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The simple fact is that any piece of tubing will amplify your buzz. If you have metal with a hole in it, that can, in theory, be part of a trumpet. So, a Monette Bb, Picc, Eb, etc. mpc will amplify your buzz into whatever key horn you put it in...but it’ll only play as designed with the correct key.
Not sure how much more nuanced a response you were looking for. What you described has been provided in Monette literature since they started making mpcs, and now you’ve tried it on your own and asked the Internet.
Happy practicing, and consider playing a C trumpet mpc on C.
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Monette B mouthpiece in a C trumpet |
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Brassnose wrote: |
Is this a general phenomenon that you should really use Monette C pieces on C trumpets to get something playable? |
Short answer: yes.
Medium answer: yes, and you have already found the differences on your own that illustrate exactly what Monette is talking about in his literature.
Longer answer: I have a matching set of Monette mouthpieces. I can IMMEDIATELY tell if I have picked up the wrong piece for the wrong horn. Slots are not the same, certain pitches lose focus and center, the tone is not as focused and solid as on the correct pitch mouthpiece.
You have to remember that Monette designed these mouthpieces specifically for the key. The shortening of the mouthpiece is only one of the alterations that are made to instrument mouthpieces by key, albeit the clearly visible one!
When I got my first Monette mouthpiece, I had a C mouthpiece only. David was at IU for a visit with folks, and saw me playing the C mouthpiece on the Bb. He immediately walked over, asked why I was doing that, to which I replied, "I can only afford to buy these periodically with my income and going to school. I will get the other as soon as I can." He replied that he would send me one, no charge. And he did...and it helped tremendously.
That was 1989....his position regarding mouthpieces for the specific key of an instrument has not changed, and I have found (for me) he is right.
When I use another brand of mouthpiece, it works fine in multiple keys of instruments. I have several Bach symphonic pieces that work great on my Bb, C, Eb, etc. But when I play my Monette, they are the right mouthpiece for the right horn. Always...
Hope this helps,
AL _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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deleted_user_48e5f31 New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Deleted by dfcoleman
Last edited by deleted_user_48e5f31 on Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yctrumpet Regular Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2018 Posts: 12
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Yes, C mpc does work better than the Bb one on C trumpet. Go get one!
It's not when you put a C mpc on the trumpet, you can play ridiculously high, but the instant relieve and secure on certain notes will make your life a whole lot easier. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2063 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, in the meantime Google has turned up the old thread on the same topic Not sure why the search function on TH did not. I am still amazed at the fact the there is a "Monette difference" but no other mp difference. Interesting. Thanks for all the replies. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2063 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Oh and yctrumpet, I did not plan on playing ridiculously high (not my department anyway). I fully understand that I will have the same range. But a good mp will be nice anyway. Only half the orchestra fighting with intonation is much better than a full orchestra fighting with intonation so contributing there will be good. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 630 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting, but as far as I remember V. Bach made C cup for the C trumpet, the B cup for the Bb and so on.
Today it seems nobody really cares about this and even Bach does not make a lot of advertising about this.
So why Bach failed and Monette succeeded? |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2063 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:13 am Post subject: |
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@ voltrane: interesting, but is this true? I find it hard to believe Vincent Bach spent time to develop an mp for an A trumpet (of all things, this would be a REALLY small market) and calling it an A cup. Plus a B cup should then really be called a Bb cup, shouldn’t it? _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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omelet Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Posts: 245
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:07 am Post subject: |
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trumpetchops Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:50 am Post subject: |
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I'll be the odd guy here. I think everything is a trade off. When you shorten the mouthpiece for the shorter trumpet, the tuning is better but, something else suffers.
To show in extreems: if I play my E-flat trumpet with the E-flat mouthpiece, I have trouble with the lower register. The notes don't want to click in and the sound isn't that good. If I put in a B-flat mouthpiece, the notes click in and the sound is way better but, the trumpet plays way out of tune.
I'm not sure what the longer taper does from a technical standpoint but, just from playing I can feel it. The difference between B-flat and C is small so we probably see the tuning as a help more than the loss of something else. _________________ Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2063 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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👍🏻 thanks everyone! _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Like Al, I found a Bb mpc in a C trumpet was odd. In a blind play test with a colleague, he noticed it and the terms he used to describe it was almost exactly as Dave Monette writes.
BUT - one day, I plugged by C mpc into my Bb, and performed and unaccompanied piece. Apart from my being quite happy with my playing, colleagues and others were highly complimentary!
Now we can all put that in our pipes and smoke it...
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2047 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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On at least a few occasions I switched from C to Bb trumpet during a performance. When I did, my Monette C2M S3 worked fine on my Bb. I don't recall doing the reverse with a B-series Monette mouthpiece....
If I recall correctly, the Monette Silver Series mouthpieces are intended to work well on both C and Bb. |
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trumpetchops Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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I've found that a C is better in a Bb than a B in a C, but using a B on Bb and C on C is by far the best set up. I've never had an E but I've used a B on Eb. If I ever got an Eb horn of my own, I'd get an E. _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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