Endurance

trumpetplayer87 · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:23 am Post subject:

This must be posted about a million times but I still can't believe how my endurance varies.
Last night we played an 1 1/2 concert with an intermission. At the end of the concert I could hardly play a G in the staff. Sometimes I can play up high(G above the staff) all night long. All I did was practice less chromatic scales (the Irving Bush book). Go figure.

Bonnie
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_Don Herman · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 10:50 am Post subject:

FWIW -- There are many posts on TH regarding endurance -- you could try a search. There's a current thread in the Comeback Players' Forum.
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musiclifeline · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:09 am Post subject:

Part of it is practice (do lots of long tones) and part of it may be equipment. Are you using a big mouthpiece? And how long have you been playing?

SCtrumpet · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:15 pm Post subject:

Have you proficient in pedal tones? How well is your warm-up working for you? I am just finding out that long tones, and playing down in the basement of the horn is the best warm-up ever. They always say that being able to do pedal tones makes your higher register better.

Sammy

BobList · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:45 pm Post subject:

Sometimes....one wonders where all the endurance went....you said you played a concert last night...I'll bet that just the fact that it was a concert made you a bit nervous, and you may have "tightened up"...or been tense all night.... ( maybe didn't even know it)....that's the BIGGEST endurance killer I know of...
I've been there, done that....as for a cure?...either perform in front of an audience more frequently, or do a search, and read all about the "INNER GAME" subject that you can....along with relaxation techniques.
Good Luck, Bob List, Bawlmer.

trumpetplayer87 · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:20 am Post subject:

I'm playing a Besson International with a bach 3c. In a few weeks I'll be working with my teacher for a new mouthpiece, I'm having trouble with range.

The only thing I can't figure out is why it varies so much. I'm guessing my routine varies a lot, I just don't notice it for a while.

I play a little bit of pedal tones, not much though. Someone mentioned to me health could be related to playing, I'm thinking maybe sleep could figure in too. That would make sense, as I've found myself going to bed later than usual.

Bonnie
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Fast Freddy · Regular Member Joined: 12 Sep 2003 Posts: 99

As a young, growing player you're going to see a lot of change. So just keep that in mind when you're looking for answers to "problems".

It very well could be your warm-up and/or too much tension built up in the chops... which happened to me quite a bit playing as much as I did in high school. The "fix" for me there came from a trombone player, the "warm down".

The mental approach is a biggie (probably the biggest) because, as suggested earlier, anxiety can really hurt a performance. How did you feel during the concert? Nervous, tense, dry-mouth......? Could be part of your answer.

Good luck.

LeeC · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 5730

Two things,

A mouthpiece with a well rounded rim really helps with endurance. The trouble is in finding one. I make them at home but don't rent my services out as such. Not yet anyway. You can turn one yourself on a hand drill or lathe (if you have one). Just use some 600 grit sand paper and apply it only to the inner rim.

The other thing about endurance: To explain kinda reminds of a some saying from a football player who played with Green Bay under coach Lombardi. According to this guy (whoever he was) all of Coach Lombardi's players looked forward to playing the big game on Sunday because the boss worked them so hard during the rest of the week that beating the other team in the stadium was easy.

So as long as you have no major embouchure defects, then the endurance issue is probably solved by practicing two to three hours per day. Sorry for the bad news.

Lee

Palestrina · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:33 am Post subject:

On a far less technical note, I think endurance has a LOT to do with your body and your physical and mental well-being. I can have the best horn and mouthpiece for the gig, but if I'm going on 3 hours sleep or have any non-musical thoughts in my head, my endurance suffers. I'm a morning person and can practice for 2 hours (with breaks) with no problem at 7:00 AM. At 7:00 PM, after work, I might be able to play 45 minutes. Mentally, I'm not there, and physically my body is telling me to sit on the couch and fire up the Playstation or something!!

trumpetmike · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:42 pm Post subject:

A thought, if you are usually doing gigs in the evening (which most of us are), I am not at all certain it is a good idea to be a morning person.
I have had soul band gigs when I am still playing at 2am. If I had got up at 7am I wouldn't have stood a chance.

There is a reason why most musician's don't like mornings - we are only just going to bed

One of the bits of advice I have read (and issued and been given) is to practice recital and audition pieces at the time of day when they are to be happening, surely the same could be said for gigs.

As for the original idea of endurance, yes I think it is natural for endurance to vary from day to day, but as your general level of endurance increases the bad days will still last longer. The same thing as the timing of your practising could help - if one is to be playing a two hour gig and one is practising for only 30 minutes at a time, is it any wonder that one becomes tired after an hour?

When I know I am in need of an endurance booster (I do at least one burst of this every couple of months) I tend to dig out the flexibility exercises, long notes and (of course) the Clarke. I also do a burst of serious breathing exercises.

I find that these are the best way of keeping my playing in shape.

jhatpro · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:08 pm Post subject:

I believe that disciplining yourself to rest frequently while practicing is the key to developing endurance. In Jimmy Maxwell's "The First Trumpeter," he writes:

"I recommend practicing Concone, Bordogni, or the studies included (in his book) fortissimo as well as pianissimo, banging the fingers, lipping high and resting eight beats or more every ten seconds. Figure it out in terms of bars, four, six, or eight. I also transpose Concone up a fourth or a fifth, and transpose Bordogni up a third, major or minor, for a favorable key."
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crzytptman · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:33 pm Post subject:

Of course, you need to have an efficiently responding embouchure, and maintain your air support during the stress of performance. Here are a couple of acoustic scenarios that could cause you problems:

1) Sometimes we get used to hearing ourselves in practice room or rehearsal room where we can hear ourselves fairly well. Even if we rehearse in the performance space, it's usually empty and we get a "live" feedback. Once you fill that room with bodies, or if you play on a stage with electric instruments and strong drummer (or timbales!), the way you hear yourself can drastically change. If it's a wind ensemble, concert band or orchestra setting, you have to focus on how it feels to play with varying intensities pp or fff, etc. and trust that your sound is carrying out (watch your conductor). If it's a stage band as mentioned above, get a good monitor mix - I bring my own! Also, you can use a foam earplug to plug one ear - it sounds kind of funky, but it will keep you from overblowing.

2) You should check to see if you are playing in tune with your horn's resonant pitch. Lightly pop the mouthpiece and listen for the concert Bb. Alot of players play higher than this pitch, and this can sap your endurance. When you play in tune with your horn's resonant pitch, your tone is much bigger and more brilliant and more efficient - hence more endurance.

Hope this helps

Nate
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Still Trying · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:22 am Post subject:

I feel a little hypocritical about making a post about endurance, when I have problems like that myself. But then again this might make my opinion somewhat useful.

I second the suggestion that there is no substitute for playing a lot. When I was in college, our concert band did a tour in which we played three concerts a day for high schools and after several days ended up in San Antonio as a featured band for the Texas Band Masters Association. I was one of the two lead players in this band. The program was challenging, and after the first concert of the tour my lip was pretty much shot. But we drove in buses to the next high school and repeated the concert. After playing three concerts a day for several days, by the time we got to San Antonio, playing through the program just once was a snap. I was as fresh when we finished the final concert as when we started it. I don't think that experience was unique to me.

Now, it's different. I've got a day job and playing is a sideline. These are some observations about endurance for someone who can no longer play hours a day. First of all you can look at endurance on different levels. When in rehersal, most pieces of music include rests as part of trhe music, so that you might only be playing a few seconds, before you can take the horn away from your face. And then again in rehearsal, the leader is continually halting the music to make corrections. So there is usually more rest time in a rehearsal than in a performance, when you just play the music straight through, and have to depend just on the music for rest time.

Now some music is written so that you only play for a few seconds, or a minute, or even a minute and a half without a break. But some music is written that requires you to play for several minutes continuously without taking the horn off your face. If you are a pressure player at all, this is the kind of stuff that kills you. It's not always that you don't have the endurance to play an hour and a half concert or a four hour dance, it's that you don't have the endurance to play for 5 or 6 minutes continuously without stopping. And then after you do play that piece that required you to play for 5 minutes without stopping, you're shot for the rest of the performance. And this type of endurance challenge doesn't require a lot of high notes to finish you off, although they add to the overall effect. In my case, I find that the more minutes I can play continuously without stopping, the longer performance I can play without wearing out. BUT I make no claims that this is true for anyone else. It just works that way for me.

So when I am practicing with my limited amount of practice time, I practice slow, lyrical songs back-to-back, one after the other, without stopping and time myself to see how long I can play at a time. I'm continuously trying to push the continuous play time. Then I rest the same amount of time before I go on with my practice. I practice other things also, of course, but this, I think helps my endurance the most. But like I said, I don't know how this would apply to anybody else. But maybe it will help.
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radial · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:01 pm Post subject:

S.T. I've seen similar kinds of improvement with additional playing time. Nowadays, just practicing doesn't seem to do it so maybe I'm not doing the right kinds of practicing. I find that when playing for long periods of time, any small amount of rest makes a lot of difference. I'll pull the horn loose for half a note at the end of a long note, etc. Doesn't seem like much but did seem to make quite a bit of difference for me. My already lousy endurance was helped in a major way.

jgadvert · Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:53 pm Post subject:

I like that play alot/more mindset to gain endurance. Countless pros agree
that play/rest for short periods is best. Was any proof they are right ever published?(probably). I think that one hour+ periods with 30 seconds of rest here and there might prepare certain types of players to perform longer shows. My years playing orchestral pieces(with tons of rest) did not prepare me for other types of performances(with tons of playing and little rest).