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Charlie Jones
Regular Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2019
Posts: 15
Location: Evanston, IL
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 Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 6:57 am Post subject: Schilke E3L Intonation |
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| Has anybody had any luck with making modifications to their Schilke E3L for improved intonation? Like most people, I find that my 2nd line G's and 4th line D's are low, and the G on top of the staff is closed off and sharp. I've had all the normal approaches suggested to me (Osmun blueprint, PVA, using a Bach-sized bell, reducing mouthpiece gap), but I would appreciate hearing from anyone with first-hand experience before making any changes to my instrument. If anybody has tried any of these modifications and found that they didn't work the way they hoped, I would appreciate hearing about that too. Thanks! |
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Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1102
Location: Sacramento, Ca
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Schilke E3L Intonation |
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| Charlie Jones wrote: | | Has anybody had any luck with making modifications to their Schilke E3L for improved intonation? Like most people, I find that my 2nd line G's and 4th line D's are low, and the G on top of the staff is closed off and sharp. I've had all the normal approaches suggested to me (Osmun blueprint, PVA, using a Bach-sized bell, reducing mouthpiece gap), but I would appreciate hearing from anyone with first-hand experience before making any changes to my instrument. If anybody has tried any of these modifications and found that they didn't work the way they hoped, I would appreciate hearing about that too. Thanks! |
Test various mouthpieces. I just purchased an E3L and had noticed some of those issues. After testing mouthpieces with different cups and backbores, I came to the conclusion that the E3L is mouthpiece sensitive, or at least mine is. Some mouthpieces played quite sharp in the upper register, others only on certain notes.
This is only my experience. Others may (and probably will) chime in with their experiences.
This doesn't negate any possible need for a PVA or blueprinting, etc. But a good way to make improvements to an instrument without physically altering it is with mouthpieces. There are a ton of ads in the marketplace, so check out if any are in your size range. Different cups and backbores can have a marked affect on intonation, response, tone color, etc. As soon as you plug it in, the mouthpiece is part of the instrument.
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-Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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benlewis
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1011
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 11:54 am Post subject: |
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With high horns, there are mouthpiece alterations that affect certain problem notes beside the traditional throat/backbore. When I bought my first G1L, I had some particular notes that were way out. I talked to Scott Laskey about it and he said that a certain change to the entrance of the throat from the cup would help alleviate this. He did it to my mouthpiece and it worked great; although he would not elaborate as to the exact alteration. Unfortunately, I sold that mouthpiece with the horn,
Whether or not that information went with Scott, I don't know. It would be worth contacting the mouthpiece person at Schilke or Karl Hammond to see if they can assist you.
HTH
Ben |
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Betelgeuse215
Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I started switching E3L parts with Monette Eb compononets and each time, it kept getting better. Eventually, it was 100% Monette. |
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Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1102
Location: Sacramento, Ca
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| benlewis wrote: | With high horns, there are mouthpiece alterations that affect certain problem notes beside the traditional throat/backbore. When I bought my first G1L, I had some particular notes that were way out. I talked to Scott Laskey about it and he said that a certain change to the entrance of the throat from the cup would help alleviate this. He did it to my mouthpiece and it worked great; although he would not elaborate as to the exact alteration. Unfortunately, I sold that mouthpiece with the horn,
Whether or not that information went with Scott, I don't know. It would be worth contacting the mouthpiece person at Schilke or Karl Hammond to see if they can assist you.
HTH
Ben |
Dick Akright used to do a mod like this to correct the flat 4th space E and Eb on C trumpet. He didn't adjust from the cup side, but the throat exit on the backbore side.
Makes sense a similar mod would produce good results on other instruments.
_________________
-Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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NYCTPT78
Regular Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Oceanside, NY
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 1:14 am Post subject: |
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My e3l is very mouthpiece sensitive as well, if you haven’t experimented with different pieces I’d try that. I use Warburton and found the backbore makes a huge difference.
Ryan
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Thane #165, 72 style bronze bell
Schilke b6lb, b7lb, b4lb
Bach 180-37 Blackburn 20 pipe
Couesnon Monopole Flugelhorn
Bach Chicago C
Schilke E3L
Schilke P7-4
Scherzer 8111st
Monette/Reeves mouthpieces |
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patdublc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 1050
Location: Salisbury, MD
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: |
Dick Akright used to do a mod like this to correct the flat 4th space E and Eb on C trumpet. He didn't adjust from the cup side, but the throat exit on the backbore side.
Makes sense a similar mod would produce good results on other instruments. |
Peter Pickett did a similar alteration for me. I took my Shires C into the shop and played it for him. Wonderful sounding horn but I had to play with the tuning slide all the way in. So, I asked him to provide a shorter backbore that was similar to his #3. He did that. Then, we tested it and the intonation was pretty squirrely, especially on second line G. The G could land just about anywhere between F# and Ab. He took the backbore, did a little magic near the exit and it pulled everything in line. There were 4 of use there evaluating the before and after. It was quite dramatic. He didn't explain exactly what he did.
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Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models. |
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Andy Del
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 2665
Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:47 am Post subject: |
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I had an E3L which had a great sound but intonation that one literally died for, it was bad. I have played other which are much better...
My solution was found in a different horn, better sound overall; and intonation which was pretty spot on apart from the F at the top of the stave.
cheers
Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes... |
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