• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Low Register Issues


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Comeback Players
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
teds87
New Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Low Register Issues Reply with quote

Making a comeback after 13 years. I’ve been practicing consistently for 10 days, and I am having a really hard time with my low register. It’s better depending on the mouthpiece. With a 3C I can’t even make a sound on Ab or lower. On bigger mouthpieces I can produce actual tones, but they’re still not great (1.5C and Schilke 18C3D). With my current level of chops-fitness, the big mouthpieces really limit my endurance and really limit my upper range to the point I have trouble completing some pretty basic Arban’s exercises. Am I just being too impatient? I have no problem being patient building my high range back up, but I feel like these low notes should be cake. Possible embouchure issue? I’ve always placed the mouthpiece mostly on the upper lip and I had a couple private instructors who thought about making me change that at a couple points. Someone recommended slow and soft Clarke studies, but I was wondering if anyone had other thoughts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
50YrComeback
Regular Member


Joined: 05 Nov 2018
Posts: 71
Location: St. Louis

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back -

Like you (except 50 yr layoff), thought I would buzz through the Arban Book on my own and in a few months regain the skill it originally took me 9 years to develop. I was making similar posts trying to get advice from people who can't even hear or see what I am doing. Like you, I figured it might be a mouth piece issue. The best advice I received on the forum is to find a good teacher to at least get you re-started as you don't waste the time you have. Have somebody look at your set-up and also help you manage your expectations. If the embouchure needs changing, much easier to do it now that 3-6 months from now. Everybody's different so what works for one person, won't necessarily work for somebody else.

If you spend anytime (don't spend too much time or you'll go crazy) on this forum, you'll find out there is generally no agreement on method and/or embouchure set-up.

At the beginning, I couldn't produce a note with a breath attack, I had difficulty playing below the low C and couldn't produce a G below low C. In time with the guidance of a teacher and "connecting my own dots", I'm able to do a lot of good stuff.

Regarding finding a good teacher - maybe check with the local college and/or high school programs? You'll get some SKYPE lesson offers, but in my opinion, at least in the beginning, its important to be sitting directly across from someone if at all possible.

In the meantime, I would focus on the long tones with breath attacks and try to produce some quality tone.


Anyway, have fun re-learning but definitely get some guidance.
_________________
GaryF
"I'm probably not as good as I used to think that I was"

50 year layoff
Giardenelli 812S (a/k/a Amati ATR-604HS)
CarolBrass CPT-1000 Mini Trumpet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
teds87
New Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s really good advice. Somehow the thought of finding an instructor never even crossed my mind. I actually now live in the area of the guy I had in college. Maybe I will look him up. Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheiden
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 7493
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would generally stay away from the bigger pieces to solve the current limitation. I'd stick with the 3C and find exercises that promote ease in the lower register. I'd probably go with the first part of the Schlossberg book. If you're not familiar then you might benefit from at least a couple lessons from someone who can show you how to approach them.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 704
Location: Sacramento, Ca

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

27 Groups of Exercises by Earl D. Irons.

Great book. Practiced methodically and according to instructions, it will help you develop embouchure control and efficiency, improve playable range (up and down) and improve air efficiency.

Use a metronome with it.
_________________
-Tom Hall-
Bach 37 B flat
Bach 239 C w/Akright Leadpipe
Schilke E3L E flat
Stomvi Piccolo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Turkle
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 2156
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love doing pedal tones as part of my daily chop routine, because they make my low notes feel "not as low." (Since I routinely play far below them.)

Pedals have other benefits as well, when done in moderation, but the above is one of them - for me.

You're only 10 days in. A proper embouchure is going to take a lot longer than that to develop. Be patient and play lots of long tones and lip slurs and you'll be fine!
_________________
Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrhappy
Veteran Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2018
Posts: 327
Location: Port Jackson, NY

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Low Register Issues Reply with quote

teds87 wrote:
I’ve been practicing consistently for 10 days.


HOLY COW...10 DAYS??!! C'mon man, you should be playing an octave above Maynard by now!!!

Seriously... It's good to keep an eye on things but you should probably give yourself a LITTLE time to get the 'ol train a chugging'!!
_________________
MH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
teds87
New Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Low Register Issues Reply with quote

mrhappy wrote:
teds87 wrote:
I’ve been practicing consistently for 10 days.


HOLY COW...10 DAYS??!! C'mon man, you should be playing an octave above Maynard by now!!!

Seriously... It's good to keep an eye on things but you should probably give yourself a LITTLE time to get the 'ol train a chugging'!!


I know, I know....

I’ve actually been surprised about how quickly everything is coming back overall. Going into this, I knew upper register and endurance would take a long time to build back up, I just wasn’t expecting to struggle below the staff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
3bflat
New Member


Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:55 am    Post subject: Re: Low Register Issues Reply with quote

teds87 wrote:
Making a comeback after 13 years. I’ve been practicing consistently for 10 days, and I am having a really hard time with my low register.


I'm fifteen years into my comeback. The best thing I did was to find a teacher to assist me with relearning methods/techniques that I had forgotten. One of his best pieces of wisdom was a reference to Tom Hooten (principal trumpet LA Philharmonic) who has these mantras for his practice routines: Many small improvements, perfect form and concentration and art of routine.
Good luck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stutrumpet
Regular Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2018
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I came back I am actually playing better than ever. This is partly because I now have the time to practice and I look at quite a lot of the top pro's vids that I found via links on the forum.

I would agree with getting a good teacher - helps you keep your focus. Mouthpiece size isn't really an issue so long as it is not extreme. Kurt Thompson demonstrates in a video what I was told many years ago 'Be prepared to play anything on anything' Kurt shows it is possible to get double top C on any mouthpiece including French horn mouthpiece. Also try warming up on trumpet with the main slide pulled right out - jus tMP + leadpipe buzzing.

Years ago I played down to one side and thought it was due to my teeth - wrong - I went to see a top UK pro who just got me to say 'mmmmm' and told me to practice using that formation (fairly central between top and bottom lip) but the best advice was then ONLY to practice this way - when out playing don't try to do it - it will take over subconsciously - and it did. My embouchure is central and no air leaks.

Next aim is high register and I am practising Kurt's roll-in, roll-out technique. I can now get double top C which gives me much more confidence in orchestral playing with those long quiet top D's e.g. in Mahler.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jrd19580
Regular Member


Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 41
Location: Racine, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teds87,

I will echo what some of the others have already said, find yourself a good teacher and let the teacher help you and give you a program to get back on the right track. I am blessed to have a great trumpet player, who is also a fantastic teacher here locally and he has helped me on the comeback road. He is also a GR fitter and he helped me to find the right mouthpiece for me and the horn I play.

I am a converted baritone player, and after a 40+ years layoff and only knowing how to read bass clef, I decided I wanted to learn the trumpet and how to read Treble Clef.

At first, it was slow going but after a couple of years, (had a couple of surgeries that slowed me down) but it is finally coming around.

Some of the things I am able to play now I never dreamed I would be playing, my tone is vastly improved and the endurance is growing.

In summary......Find a good teacher

All the best!
John
_________________
Yamaha 8310Z II
Solista Flugelhorn
LA Olds Studio Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kumara999
New Member


Joined: 11 Mar 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:40 am    Post subject: Low register issues Reply with quote

I also started back after 25 years about 4 months ago. I would echo getting a teacher right away - make sure that you are not starting back up with any bad habits you may have had.

My issue is the opposite. I can barely get out a good sounding E/F on the staff - I know it just takes time but still very frustrating.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thehedge
Regular Member


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am also a comeback player and agree getting a good teacher is what will help the most. I waited much too long and struggled for a long time with what "I thought" worked in the past. Spent way too much time wondering why it seemed so much easier before (20+ years ago). Sometimes, you remember things much differently than they actually were. That coupled with playing many more hours back then.

My teacher has me completely changing my embouchure focusing on placement and "ease of playing". Since starting with pedal tones to loosen up and long tones, it is becoming much easier.

My only real issue is I still have trouble with double low pedals where they are almost all about one semi-tone sharp. May just need to relax even more to settle into the tones.

Best of luck in your comeback and take your time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oliver king
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 1705

PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 (more) for finding a good teacher and being patient.

I'm 7 or 8 months into a new horn, 5 months into a new mouthpiece. Adding Caruso MCFB maybe two months ago is like the glue that pulls everything together. There are excellent notes to consider in the Caruso forum. My chops always feel fresh, I find myself craving the mouthpiece first thing in the morning. There's been a dynamic change in my tone and my range is expanding.
_________________
Bel Canto 59
Bach 37
Olds Recording
Holton B47
TCP 1 & 2
Adams F1
Olds Super Tenor Trombone
Alesis QS8
B2S3/82P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thehedge
Regular Member


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more addendum to my earlier advice. Don't spend too much time looking for all the "answers"/"solutions" to the "come back" problems you will encounter.

When I was originally playing, the closest music store was a long drive away and the Internet did not exist. These days, it's too easy to fall into the "spend more time on the web looking for a solution, a new mouthpiece, a new (or old) horn, a new technique, ..." mentality and you end up spending more time reading about playing than actually working on it. I know I did.

The advice I have seen of many on this site that I respect that seems to work best is

1. find a good teacher
2. practice, practice, practice
3. play, play and play some more
4. repeat steps 2 & 3
5. give it time. most people took several years in their beginning days
to actually begin to play well. Comeback players will often have to
go through some of those hurdles all over again BUT the mind often
gets in the way of trying to convince you of the "I used to ..."
6. repeat 2-5!

Most importantly, enjoy the music. (again)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richardwy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 4306
Location: Casper, WY - The Gotham of the Prarie

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: Low Register Issues Reply with quote

teds87 wrote:
Am I just being too impatient?


Yes.

Give it a month.
_________________
1972 Selmer Radial
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bach_again
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 2276
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve worked extensively on this issue. Send me a DM if you would like me to send you materials to try. I know how frustrating it is!

Best,
Mike
_________________
Check out Barkley Microphones!

www.facebook.com/barkleymic
www.instagram.com/barkleymicrophones
www.barkleymic.com

John Lake, solo trumpet, Infinity ribbon mic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LkI7uvqDzc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
robcs
Regular Member


Joined: 04 Apr 2019
Posts: 25
Location: Toronto, ON

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m 6 months into my ‘comeback’ and 3 months into a new horn (the Bach listed in my signature)

My mouthpiece journey has been interesting, to say the least.

When I bought the Bach I asked them to switch the MP to a 3C (after all, I’m an experienced player. You’re not going to get me on a 7C). My tone was, at best, thin and hollow, even in the mid range.

I compounded the error by getting the Shew Lead, which caused even more problems.

So I picked up a 7C and had an immediate shift. I’ve been taking lessons, and my teacher said I was finally starting to sound like a trumpet player (not a cornet player trying to play trumpet).

The final piece of the puzzle was when I added a KGU Brass mouthpiece booster. It's made a real difference, especially in the bottom register. Best $60 I've spent. It's made my tone a lot warmer and more resonant, os as my teacher put it, "it's put meat on the bones"

Hope that helps
_________________
Comeback player after 25-yr break

Trumpets: Bach 180S37, Jupiter 600ML, Courtois-Gaudet C, Sprengler Bb rotary
Cornets: Jupiter 520, Kawai (B&S) Eb stencil
Flugels: Jupiter 846RL, 1925 Couesnon, J Milliens, Polmuz
EWI USB just because
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robcs
Regular Member


Joined: 04 Apr 2019
Posts: 25
Location: Toronto, ON

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost forgot. The other side of the equation has been lots of work on fundamentals using Arban. Also, I warm up with the Stamp warm ups, and I do a lot of long tone work.

My wife hates it - she wishes I'd just play tunes - but it makes a real difference.
_________________
Comeback player after 25-yr break

Trumpets: Bach 180S37, Jupiter 600ML, Courtois-Gaudet C, Sprengler Bb rotary
Cornets: Jupiter 520, Kawai (B&S) Eb stencil
Flugels: Jupiter 846RL, 1925 Couesnon, J Milliens, Polmuz
EWI USB just because
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scarface
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1787

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do mouthpiece and leadpipe buzzing, just a little at the moment. Can buzz down into the pedal register easily now, but it took a while to get there. I always had a tendency to collapse the corners while descending, which does me no good, especially on downward slurs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Comeback Players All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group