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Which of the two trumpets?


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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darn! Now I am hungry for Mexican.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
PDX,

It is your thread, your question, your money and your nephew. Gifting a trumpet is a cool idea.

That said many of us see the way this thread as having gone...

Jose:
I am thinking of going to Senor Pepe’s or La Imperial for lunch. What do you think?

Jesus:
I know people who have gotten food poisoning at both, so neither. Try Taqueria Vallarta instead.

Jose:
But which of the two would you choose?


Perfect, wish I had said that.

Brad
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PDXbugler
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read a comment in which someone stated that Chinese horn quality is where Japanese horn quality was at one time. Japanese quality improved over time and is highly regarded now.
Of course, Chinese horn quality may or may not follow a similar path.

Additionally, it's one thing if someone says they tried a particular model/brand and determined it's unreliable, but it's something else when someone says they're not familiar with a model/brand, but it must be unreliable because of something they heard or its country of origin.
The individuals that are familiar with it shared positive comments.

The Allora is a new model and the first Chinese horn that I've seen with a 3-year warranty. It demonstrates confidence in their product and might represent the first turning point in Chinese horns.
I'll find out and at least it assures that my nephew will have a working trumpet until he's ready for the next level.

Finally, it's incomprehensible why a few people get worked up simply because their advice isn't followed - yes, a few people are worked up.
The thread has unfortunately descended into a rabbit hole. I mentioned that I would share the experience - good or bad - with the trumpet. It's been made clear that it wouldn't be welcome, as some opinions are set in stone.

Regardless of what a few have claimed, all productive suggestions have been received and for the final time appreciated. It's my last post on the subject, so the highbrow castigating can continue uninterrupted.

P.S. Sincere thanks for the private messages too.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PDXbugler wrote:

I read a comment in which someone stated that Chinese horn quality is where Japanese horn quality was at one time. Japanese quality improved over time and is highly regarded now.
Of course, Chinese horn quality may or may not follow a similar path.

Additionally, it's one thing if someone says they tried a particular model/brand and determined it's unreliable, but it's something else when someone says they're not familiar with a model/brand, but it must be unreliable because of something they heard or its country of origin.
The individuals that are familiar with it shared positive comments.

The Allora is a new model and the first Chinese horn that I've seen with a 3-year warranty. It demonstrates confidence in their product and might represent the first turning point in Chinese horns.
I'll find out and at least it assures that my nephew will have a working trumpet until he's ready for the next level.

Finally, it's incomprehensible why a few people get worked up simply because their advice isn't followed - yes, a few people are worked up.
The thread has unfortunately descended into a rabbit hole. I mentioned that I would share the experience - good or bad - with the trumpet. It's been made clear that it wouldn't be welcome, as some opinions are set in stone.

Regardless of what a few have claimed, all productive suggestions have been received and for the final time appreciated. It's my last post on the subject, so the highbrow castigating can continue uninterrupted.

P.S. Sincere thanks for the private messages too.


Your response and observations are absolutely reasonable. You didn't ask for a general recommendation. You asked only one question: "Which of the two is the better choice?" I will say that in my experience the people on TH are extremely well meaning. However, you asked only one question: "Which of the two is the better choice?" Most of the responses don't answer that question. On it's face it's a simple question requiring a simple answer. Your patience is to be commended.

Stay with TH. It's a great forum populated by people who care.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
PDXbugler wrote:


I read a comment in which someone stated that Chinese horn quality is where Japanese horn quality was at one time. Japanese quality improved over time and is highly regarded now.
Of course, Chinese horn quality may or may not follow a similar path.

Additionally, it's one thing if someone says they tried a particular model/brand and determined it's unreliable, but it's something else when someone says they're not familiar with a model/brand, but it must be unreliable because of something they heard or its country of origin.
The individuals that are familiar with it shared positive comments.

The Allora is a new model and the first Chinese horn that I've seen with a 3-year warranty. It demonstrates confidence in their product and might represent the first turning point in Chinese horns.
I'll find out and at least it assures that my nephew will have a working trumpet until he's ready for the next level.

Finally, it's incomprehensible why a few people get worked up simply because their advice isn't followed - yes, a few people are worked up.
The thread has unfortunately descended into a rabbit hole. I mentioned that I would share the experience - good or bad - with the trumpet. It's been made clear that it wouldn't be welcome, as some opinions are set in stone.

Regardless of what a few have claimed, all productive suggestions have been received and for the final time appreciated. It's my last post on the subject, so the highbrow castigating can continue uninterrupted.

P.S. Sincere thanks for the private messages too.


Your response and observations are absolutely reasonable. You didn't ask for a general recommendation. You asked only one question: "Which of the two is the better choice?" I will say that in my experience the people on TH are extremely well meaning. However, you asked only one question: "Which of the two is the better choice?" Most of the responses don't answer that question. On it's face it's a simple question requiring a simple answer. Your patience is to be commended.

Stay with TH. It's a great forum populated by people who care.


I agree that there are people here who care, which is exactly why some of us mentioned that we thought the OP would be better off going another route. How many threads do we see here that do not strictly stay on topic? I might be mistaken, but I believe the OP is not highly experienced, and while his question was certainly valid, should those of us with strong opinions (mine is based on direct experience with one of those two brands) should have kept silent, so as not to stray from the original question? If someone asked me whether they should send investment capital to a prince in Nigeria who had emailed them, or invest in a company that wants to manufacture DVR’s, my respone would not directly answer that question either.

I mentioned more than once that I thought and still do that it is admirable that he wishes to gift a new horn to his nephew. I don’t feel he is making the best choice, but it’s his choice. However, my intentions in my comments, though I did not strictly adhere to the original question, were also based upon a desire to give him the best information. Personally I will not apologize for that.

Brad
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:
mine is based on direct experience with one of those two brands

Brad makes a great point, and I respect his opinion. My reply was also based on direct experience. But I realize my positive experience with Allora is not definitive.

There are a number of factors and personal preferences at play: new vs used, vintage vs non-vintage, Asian vs USA, house brand vs national brand, national chain vs local dealer, budget, experience of the buyer, experience of the player, etc.

A lot of advice was given with the best of intentions. But we don't always agree on a single best answer. I think that's okay.

Mike
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Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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JetJaguar
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: Which of the two trumpets? Reply with quote

austincustombrass wrote:
jetjaguar wrote:
PDXbugler wrote:


Allora ATR-250S (Silver)

http://allorainstruments.com/instruments/allora-student-series-bb-trumpet-atr-250/

Jean Paul TR-330N (Nickel)

https://jeanpaulusa.com/products/the-student-trumpet-tr-330n


I haven't played either. Allora is the house brand for Woodwind Brasswind, which has a name to protect. Austin Custom Brass carries Jean Paul instruments. They also have a name to protect. In your price range, I don't think you'll find better for a new horn.


We Carry John Packer, not Jean Paul.

-ACB


Sorry, will edit.
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JetJaguar
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you should have a look at https://www.austincustombrass.biz/acb-doublers-student-trumpet-in-polished-lacquer/ , which is in your price range, named and backed by a player and seller whose reputation is second to none. They are also frequent posters on here, and Trent puts out scads of helpful free videos on Youtube.
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1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece

I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrumpetMD wrote:
Brad361 wrote:
mine is based on direct experience with one of those two brands

Brad makes a great point, and I respect his opinion. My reply was also based on direct experience. But I realize my positive experience with Allora is not definitive.

There are a number of factors and personal preferences at play: new vs used, vintage vs non-vintage, Asian vs USA, house brand vs national brand, national chain vs local dealer, budget, experience of the buyer, experience of the player, etc.

A lot of advice was given with the best of intentions. But we don't always agree on a single best answer. I think that's okay.

Mike


I agree that advice given was well intentioned, and no, we certainly will not necessarily agree....as you said, that’s okay.

What bothered me in this discussion was an implication that those who said that they would recommend neither horn, and made alternative suggestions, was adopting an elitist, or “haughty” attitude. Perhaps I’m completely off base on this, but that’s the impression I received. I believe that most of us who suggested something other than which of those two horns might be the better choice did so intending to help guide someone who might be less experienced with regards to trumpets in a better direction.

Like any advice given by anyone anywhere anytime, the person who requested it is certainly free to disregard it.

Brad
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"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
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onlyson
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my sister asked me for some advice on a horn to get my 10 year old nephew I believed I was helping her save some $ when I found a decent Reynolds student horn in very good (for me) condition for $125. A year later when the kid quit he snarkishly proclaimed that the horn was "junky". I don't think he was destined for a career in music anyways, but I think he felt like the "Poor" kid amongst his peers with newer, shiny instruments. I went through the same thing with a teenage daughter who found the sedan we bought her wasn't "cool" enough for her to drive around and promptly began to trash it in many small yet obvious ways.

That said, I did recently offer advice to a mom of my new 5th grade student, who wanted to get him upgraded from grandpa's old cornet he had been playing. I told her to find the best condition Yamaha 2335 for $250 she could find. Mom did her job and found one on ebay in nearly new condition for $289 shipped. The kid was very excited to show me what Santa brought him on Christmas morning. This past week he shows up though with the old cornet. Then proceeds to tell me and mom at the same time that something "happened" to his trumpet. Seemed his brother knocked it off a shelf or something. I didn't ask. It was the first his mom heard of it too. We'll see next week how this plays out. Bottom line: Get the kid something that looks nice, but not too nice. Because it's gonna take a beating anyways. Good luck.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

onlyson wrote:
When my sister asked me for some advice on a horn to get my 10 year old nephew I believed I was helping her save some $ when I found a decent Reynolds student horn in very good (for me) condition for $125. A year later when the kid quit he snarkishly proclaimed that the horn was "junky". I don't think he was destined for a career in music anyways, but I think he felt like the "Poor" kid amongst his peers with newer, shiny instruments. I went through the same thing with a teenage daughter who found the sedan we bought her wasn't "cool" enough for her to drive around and promptly began to trash it in many small yet obvious ways.

.......


I guess it’s a different world. When I was 16, I would have been absolutely ecstatic to have been given ANY functional car. Heck, I was delighted to be allowed to drive my mom’s Corvair (yep, a CORVAIR, painted purple) on occasion.

Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:
I guess it’s a different world. When I was 16, I would have been absolutely ecstatic to have been given ANY functional car. Heck, I was delighted to be allowed to drive my mom’s Corvair (yep, a CORVAIR, painted purple) on occasion.

Brad

Gotta love the Corvair. Ours was as '64 coupe, but ours wasn't purple.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrumpetMD wrote:
Brad361 wrote:
I guess it’s a different world. When I was 16, I would have been absolutely ecstatic to have been given ANY functional car. Heck, I was delighted to be allowed to drive my mom’s Corvair (yep, a CORVAIR, painted purple) on occasion.

Brad

Gotta love the Corvair. Ours was as '64 coupe, but ours wasn't purple.

Mike


Ralph Nader sure didn’t! (Man, I’m OLD!😬) My father did auto body work as a part time gig, mom liked purple, so he painted it purple. Not exactly a car that blended in with surrounding traffic!

So now that I’ve totally derailed the thread....😑

Brad
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"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
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Dennis78
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Corvair is my all time favorite car
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis78 wrote:
The Corvair is my all time favorite car


You’re not a well man Dennis.😉
They were actually sort of cool, very unique.

Brad
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Bill Blackwell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PDXbugler wrote:
... So much for keeping it classy. ... Finally, it's incomprehensible why a few people get worked up simply because their advice isn't followed ... The thread has unfortunately descended into a rabbit hole. ...

Welcome to the forum! You may consider yourself baptized.
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PDXbugler
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetjaguar wrote:
And you should have a look at https://www.austincustombrass.biz/acb-doublers-student-trumpet-in-polished-lacquer/ , which is in your price range, named and backed by a player and seller whose reputation is second to none. They are also frequent posters on here, and Trent puts out scads of helpful free videos on Youtube.


Thank you for the suggestion. I wasn't aware of that trumpet and I'm considering it.

It's interesting that it's made in China. As much as Chinese trumpets have been trashed here, either ACB has lowered their standard or China is improving their quality. I certainly DON'T believe that ACB has lowered their standard.
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PDXbugler
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Blackwell wrote:

Welcome to the forum! You may consider yourself baptized.


Thank you!
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PDXbugler wrote:
Bill Blackwell wrote:

Welcome to the forum! You may consider yourself baptized.


Thank you!

I sincerely hope this trumpet works out for your nephew. I look forward to hearing how it works out.

I did some research on allora and must admit that their website is nicely done.

The fact is that some former makers have gone from poor to acceptable if not respected. Carol Brass and Jupiter come to mind. Hopefully this is another instance.
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BraeGrimes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PDXbugler wrote:

I read a comment in which someone stated that Chinese horn quality is where Japanese horn quality was at one time. Japanese quality improved over time and is highly regarded now.
Of course, Chinese horn quality may or may not follow a similar path.


It's not where it's made or what guarantee it's been given - it's how it's made and who's backing the warranty (and what IS covered under warranty). There've been plenty of decent horns made all over the world. Italy isn't known as a mecca for trumpet making, but the AR Resonance horns are beautifully made! China is often associated with marker factories and I've seen factories that produce instruments with MANY well known (as well as lesser known) brands stamped on them. Some companies (ahem, sorry to be the 'Yamaha' guy, but yes, us) create factories which uphold the same standards and practices in a different country. I know Besson/Buffet have done this too, and I know some companies who are infamous for their inconsistency often make everything in house.
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