Rotary D playa in C# - how to fix?

trombahonker

Hi all,

A friend recently purchased a 70s rotary D, but with a standard trumpet mouthpiece the horn plays in a very tonal C#. It did not come with a mouthpiece, and a standard mouthpiece does seat in the instrument. Thoughts on what could be done mouthpiece wise for the horn to play at pitch?

Thanks,
Aaron

PW-Factor · Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:37 pm Post subject:

What kind of horn and what kind of mouthpiece?
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cheiden · Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:41 pm Post subject:

Any chance that the horn is actually a flugel? Not that I've ever seen a flugel in D but it could explain the ill fitting mouthpiece and the pitch problem.
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etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6187

It might have a short shank trumpet receiver. Mark Curry would be the best person to ask about these.

Robson

Dale Proctor · Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject:

I don't know if you can get a half step out of a shorter mouthpiece.
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etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6187

Are you sure it is a D and not a C?

trombahonker · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:17 am Post subject:

PW-the brand is unmarked, but seems like a well-built instrument. It's the same with any standard trumpet mouthpiece.

I too wonder if a mouthpiece could correct for half a step, either direction! The comment about it being C, perhaps. It was advertised as D, although I suppose it's possible it is C tuned for 443 or 4. We did try pulling the slide out a lot to get the pitch down, and even with a large backbore and throat, it's higher than C.

Beside my rotary B-flat and C, this horn looks like the next step up in pitch, just a bit shorter overall. Does anyone happen to have a list of the lengths of different pitch trumpets? I did some searching, but can only find the lengths of Bb and C trumpets.

Thanks,
Aaron

PW-Factor · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:03 am Post subject:

Maybe it's a C# trumpet. Rare bird, there.
_________________
Ska/Reggae - The Selectones
New Orleans Funk - The Big Lagniappe

Raw Brass HB2 - Hammond PW
Gen II ACB Doubler Flugel - Curry 5FL

RandyTX · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:27 am Post subject:

Yeah, a C# rotary (or the even rarer, Db) would have to go for at least $15,000 on ebay as a one of a kind horn.

Dale Proctor · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:36 am Post subject:

I think I'd rather have a Db horn than one pitched in C#. It's just the principle of the thing...

Seriuosly, though, could it just be a badly-designed instrument? Or maybe it's a C trumpet and it needs a mouthpipe shank to lower the pitch. Are the valve slides shorter than the ones on a C trumpet? If so, than maybe it is a D trumpet...time for a hacksaw mod...
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Andy Del · Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:16 am Post subject:

Traditional German trumpets often had a shorter shanked mpc - sometimes referred as 'field trumpet'. Older scherzer piccolos* had this, and there was a significant pitch change if you forced a normal trumpet mpc into the horn.

cheers

Andy

* My scherzer picc dates from about 1985, and was the first I know of down under to take a standard trumpet shank...
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Bill Dishman · Heavyweight Member Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Posts: 1174

In experimenting with various cornet mouthpieces (short shank etc.)
I have found that mouthieces with true "V" shaped cups and very large throats lower the pitch a large amount even up to a half step.

Trumpet mp Example: the Schilke trumpet mp F1 has a huge throat and very deep cup.

This may allow the rotary to play in C to some extent.

I would doubt a short shank mp would raise it up to the key of D.

Mark Curry or the guy at Pickett Mouthpieces should be able to help.

Bill Dishman
Gainesville, Florida

GordonH · Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:49 am Post subject:

I would be tempted to have the main tuning slide shortened after optimising the mouthpiece fitting and gap. This leaves the risk of notes like G (on the second line) being flat, or other weird anomalies, but you should get a feel for what might happen by pushing the slide all the way in and trying a bach cornet mouthpiece in it with some tape round it. I wouldn't have it cut down if it looked like all the slides were going to need done too, as that way lies madness.

We see Db trumpets advertised here sometimes but they are really high pitched C trumpets. Rare, but not completely unknown, especially for instruments of military origin.
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Danbassin · Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:26 pm Post subject:

Bringing back an old thread, as I’ve hit a dead end identical to that of the original poster:

High pitch German trumpets did take non-standard shanked mouthpieces, and while I’ve noticed this on various models in the past, I came into a Scherzer D that I would sincerely like to play someday. It’s my hope that someone reading this will have just a bit more info, though. This horn *almost* sits we,l with a large Morse taper flugel shank, but there’s some wobble, and a flugel mouthpiece is not exactly ideal for much of the repertoire I was hoping to play on this horn

So -
1) Has anyone seen an original high horn rotary trumpet mouthpiece? If so, do you happen to have information about the shank taper and overall mouthpiece length??
2) Has anyone successfully converted one of these horns, either by replacing the leadpipe entirely, replacing the receiver, or having the manufacturer modernize the horn?

Something of an SOS, here, as this horn is too good to just sit around (from what I can tell playing it with the wrong mpc).

Best,
-DB
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